Discussion:
Conscripts in The Social Security Ponzi Scheme
(too old to reply)
Harry Hope
2011-06-14 02:28:48 UTC
Permalink
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme

"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
have to recruit the young and assign to them the following tasks:
pay more and retire later."

By Daniel Oliver on 6.13.11

The spit turns slowly over the Social Security roasting fire but there is
no whimpering from the children being cooked. Yet.

Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal (one of English literature's great
satires) for preventing the children of poor people in Ireland from being
a burden to their parents or their country, and for making them
beneficial to the public was: to eat them.

Our problem is almost precisely the reverse. We have too much food, as
Mrs. Obama reminds us, and we have too few children: too few to guard the
gates of Western civilization, too few to pay the bills coming due for
the welfare state, primarily for Social Security and Medicare.

What to do? Two facts deserve our preliminary attention.

One. In the 2004 presidential election (a more typical election than the
2008 election) only 17 percent of the 18 to 29 year olds voted, meaning
83 percent didn't bother to vote. That's called potential.

Two: The youngest voters haven't, recently, seemed to care much about
even issues that directly affect them. When was the last time you heard
about a student movement? Why is it, for example, that young people don't
lobby and vote to make the drinking age 18, which it was in many places
until 1984? Perhaps buying alcohol with a fake ID out the back door
stimulates sophistication, but it tends to stultify the exercise of civic
responsibility.

Grownups may think that presidential elections are about important
issues, but it's not obvious that the kids care about policies at all.
Oh, yes, they get caught up in the hoopla of a presidential campaign. But
do they think that the policies a president will pursue will actually
affect them?

If young people really cared about public policy, they would be frantic
about the financial state of the country. Debts are piling up higher than
the Washington Monument and they are being set up to pay them off. Yet
not a single college student -- that we know of -- has let out a whimper.
But can the older folks count on the continuing civic lassitude of the
young? We don't know. But we do know that the current fiscally absurd
Social Security scheme might not survive the kids' discovery of
democracy's power. The fact is, the kids in America are being had, even
as the poor citizens of the Arab states, whom we have been watching on
television in recent months, have for so many years, decades even, been
had.

One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will have to
recruit the young and assign to them the following tasks: pay more and
retire later. But what's in that fix for them?

Not a lot. At least, not a lot compared to the alternative, a privatized
Social Security system.

Both skeptics and Progressives (aka liberals) will vehemently oppose
privatization of Social Security, the skeptics because they fear it won't
work, the Progressives because they fear it will.

But of course it will work. It is working, in Chile. Workers there have
been getting rich on their social security accounts since 1981.

Why don't we privatize our Social Security system? Because if today's
young people were released from the bondage of Social Security, who would
pay into the system the funds necessary to provide the benefits promised
to today's retirees? As everyone is finally discovering, Social Security
is not a lock box. The money flows out in benefits as fast as --
actually, starting last year, faster than -- it is paid in in taxes.
Legislators call that a pay-as-you-go scheme.

Prosecutors call it a Ponzi scheme. The young are like Bernie Madoff's
clients. Or like pigeons, a term given to investors duped into supporting
a theatrical enterprise that the insiders have come to realize will flop
financially. Like, say, Springtime for Obama in Balanced Budget Land.
The dirty big secret of Social Security reform is that it depends on
keeping the young as conscripts in a Ponzi scheme. Where's the morality
in that -- in an enlightened Western democracy?

The answer to that question may be that the government promised -- well,
sort of: see the story of Ephram Nestor here -- the older folks (whom
Time magazine in 1988 dubbed the "Greedy Geezers") that they would
receive Social Security benefits when they retired, and it would be
immoral not to honor that promise.

But that is a moral claim that may have to give way to a new democratic
imperative in the coming years if the young decide that being roasted on
the Social Security spit like pigeons no longer appeals.
Ray Fischer
2011-06-16 06:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
--
Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal
NoBody
2011-06-16 13:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy. That's "broken".

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
Ray Fischer
2011-06-16 15:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy.
Oh look, the rightard is lying again. And here's the proof ...
Post by NoBody
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
After the trust fund is exhausted -- which, according to
projections, would happen in 2037 -- Social Security would be able
to pay out only about three-quarters of its promised benefits

Wow. The dumbass sure is stupid to insist that MAYBE exhausting the
trust fund in a quarter century means it's about to be bankrupt.
--
Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal
Sid9
2011-06-16 15:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy.
Oh look, the rightard is lying again. And here's the proof ...
Post by NoBody
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
After the trust fund is exhausted -- which, according to
projections, would happen in 2037 -- Social Security would be able
to pay out only about three-quarters of its promised benefits
Wow. The dumbass sure is stupid to insist that MAYBE exhausting the
trust fund in a quarter century means it's about to be bankrupt.
--
Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
....and easily fixed!
NoBody
2011-06-17 14:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy.
Oh look, the rightard is lying again. And here's the proof ...
Post by NoBody
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
After the trust fund is exhausted -- which, according to
projections, would happen in 2037 -- Social Security would be able
to pay out only about three-quarters of its promised benefits
Wow. The dumbass sure is stupid to insist that MAYBE exhausting the
trust fund in a quarter century means it's about to be bankrupt.
If they can't meet their obligations in full, that is the definition
of bancruptcy - their debts exceed their income by a significant
amount. Oh, and you "forgot" to quote this part:

"As a result, the system's break-even date -- when Social Security
will begin paying out more in benefits than it takes in through
payroll taxes -- has been moved forward by one year, to 2016, in the
most recent Social Security trustees report. "

That's five years from now.
Y***@Jurgis.net
2011-06-17 14:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
"As a result, the system's break-even date -- when Social Security
will begin paying out more in benefits than it takes in through
payroll taxes -- has been moved forward by one year, to 2016, in the
most recent Social Security trustees report. "
Easy solution

Make those earning upwards of $500,000 a year pay SS on ALL earnings.

(take caps off)
Post by NoBody
=============================================================
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:32:34 -0700 (PDT),
Kurtis T. Nicklas
Post by NoBody
I don't pay much attention to him these days, but I'd wager he's not
happy.
You sure as shit paid attention when you got caught
making all those late-night hang-up phone calls, didn't
ya, Nickkkkers?

CLICK ! ! !
Jerry Okamura
2011-06-18 01:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
"As a result, the system's break-even date -- when Social Security
will begin paying out more in benefits than it takes in through
payroll taxes -- has been moved forward by one year, to 2016, in the
most recent Social Security trustees report. "
Easy solution

Make those earning upwards of $500,000 a year pay SS on ALL earnings.


How much will that bring in?
Y***@Jurgis.net
2011-06-18 04:51:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:23:20 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Y***@Jurgis.net
Post by NoBody
"As a result, the system's break-even date -- when Social Security
will begin paying out more in benefits than it takes in through
payroll taxes -- has been moved forward by one year, to 2016, in the
most recent Social Security trustees report. "
Easy solution
Make those earning upwards of $500,000 a year pay SS on ALL earnings.
How much will that bring in?
Lots.
Post by Y***@Jurgis.net
=============================================================
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:32:34 -0700 (PDT),
Kurtis T. Nicklas
Post by Y***@Jurgis.net
I don't pay much attention to him these days, but I'd wager he's not
happy.
You sure as shit paid attention when you got caught
making all those late-night hang-up phone calls, didn't
ya, Nickkkkers?

CLICK ! ! !
Ray Fischer
2011-06-18 19:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy.
Oh look, the rightard is lying again. And here's the proof ...
Post by NoBody
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
After the trust fund is exhausted -- which, according to
projections, would happen in 2037 -- Social Security would be able
to pay out only about three-quarters of its promised benefits
Wow. The dumbass sure is stupid to insist that MAYBE exhausting the
trust fund in a quarter century means it's about to be bankrupt.
If they can't meet their obligations in full
If you could tell the truth then you'd have some credibility.
--
Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal
NoBody
2011-06-20 09:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy.
Oh look, the rightard is lying again. And here's the proof ...
Post by NoBody
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
After the trust fund is exhausted -- which, according to
projections, would happen in 2037 -- Social Security would be able
to pay out only about three-quarters of its promised benefits
Wow. The dumbass sure is stupid to insist that MAYBE exhausting the
trust fund in a quarter century means it's about to be bankrupt.
If they can't meet their obligations in full
If you could tell the truth then you'd have some credibility.
If you could reply without dishonestly snipping ther response that
contains the answer you're whining about and actually address what was
said, the world would stop spinning.
NoBody
2011-06-21 09:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by NoBody
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
"One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken. It's what America-hating rightards do.
It's on it's way to bankrupcy.
Oh look, the rightard is lying again. And here's the proof ...
Post by NoBody
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/how-long-can-social-security-last.aspx
After the trust fund is exhausted -- which, according to
projections, would happen in 2037 -- Social Security would be able
to pay out only about three-quarters of its promised benefits
Wow. The dumbass sure is stupid to insist that MAYBE exhausting the
trust fund in a quarter century means it's about to be bankrupt.
If they can't meet their obligations in full
If you could tell the truth then you'd have some credibility.
If you could reply without dishonestly snipping ther response that
contains the answer you're whining about and actually address what was
said, the world would stop spinning.
<ray-ray crickets.wav>

Z
2011-06-18 20:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
   "One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
   pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken.  It's what America-hating rightards do.
--
Ray Fischer         |  Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
SS is a Ponzi scheme. Baby Boomers will do it in.
A Ponzi Scheme run by idiots.
Ray Fischer
2011-06-19 00:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Z
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
   "One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
   pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken.  It's what America-hating rightards do.
SS is a Ponzi scheme.
That's a lie.
--
Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal
NoBody
2011-06-20 09:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Z
Post by Harry Hope
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/06/13/conscripts-in-a-ponzi-scheme
   "One thing is clear: in order to "fix" Social Security, we will
   pay more and retire later."
Pushing the lie that SS is broken.  It's what America-hating rightards do.
SS is a Ponzi scheme.
That's a lie.
Another "fact-filled" response from ray-ray...
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