Discussion:
Michael Moore Will NotTolerate Slander
(too old to reply)
RH
2004-06-12 18:17:36 UTC
Permalink
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."

..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...

excerpted from:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
SB
2004-06-12 18:53:41 UTC
Permalink
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Flip-Flop Bush
2004-06-12 18:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Did you see it? Where? Or are you just talking out your ass?
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon

"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
SB
2004-06-12 20:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Read the origanal post.
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Did you see it? Where? Or are you just talking out your ass?
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon
"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."
- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Flip-Flop Bush
2004-06-12 20:52:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
Read the origanal post.
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with
Mr. Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a
piece of
trash
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Did you see it? Where? Or are you just talking out your ass?
You said "Moore movie is nothing a piece of trash"

I asked: "Did you see it? Where?"

You did not answer me therefore you were indeed talking out your ass.
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon

"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
Read the origanal post.
Yep, this proves it.

Miles "Another Body Temperature IQ DDOA Victim" Long
Post by SB
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Did you see it? Where? Or are you just talking out your ass?
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon
"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."
- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Submariner
2004-06-13 02:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by SB
Read the origanal post.
Yep, this proves it.
Miles "Another Body Temperature IQ DDOA Victim" Long
That's why Repugs are anti-education.
Post by Miles Long
Post by SB
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Did you see it? Where? Or are you just talking out your ass?
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon
"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."
- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-12 21:54:34 UTC
Permalink
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy and Michael Gorbachev. Speaking at Reagan's
funeral. Michael Gorbachev made it clear that Reagan did not win the
Cold War, when he said;

"Was it accurate to say that Reagan won the Cold War? That's not
serious. I think we all lost the Cold War, particularly the Soviet
Union... We only won when the Cold War ended."

Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.


http://www.geocities.com/mobaster/gipper.htm
The World Wide Wade
2004-06-12 23:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy
JFK was the son of a bootlegging, election-stealing, multimillionaire who
supported Hitler in the 30s. He never spoke out against McCarthyism,
campaigned to the right of Nixon on foreign policy, began a massive
military buildup, initiated the war in Vietnam, had hookers running around
the White House, consorted with mobsters, was dragged kicking and screaming
into the civil rights movement, waged a clandestine war of terror and
sabotage (after the outright invasion failed) against Cuba, and nearly blew
up the world in the Cuban missile crisis.

Oh, I nearly forgot: JFK had a good sense of humor and was a first-rate
womanizer (what do you think the "F" stood for?).
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by The World Wide Wade
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy
JFK was the son of a bootlegging, election-stealing, multimillionaire who
supported Hitler in the 30s. He never spoke out against McCarthyism,
campaigned to the right of Nixon on foreign policy, began a massive
military buildup, initiated the war in Vietnam, had hookers running around
the White House, consorted with mobsters, was dragged kicking and screaming
into the civil rights movement, waged a clandestine war of terror and
sabotage (after the outright invasion failed) against Cuba, and nearly blew
up the world in the Cuban missile crisis.
Oh, I nearly forgot: JFK had a good sense of humor and was a first-rate
womanizer (what do you think the "F" stood for?).
So, in other words he and Reagan were "contemporaries."

Miles "So Many New Victims of the Dumbing Down of America Coming Out" Long
Tempest
2004-06-13 02:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The World Wide Wade
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy
JFK was the son of a bootlegging, election-stealing, multimillionaire who
supported Hitler in the 30s.
You are confusing him with Prescott Bush, George Bush's grandfather, who
was doing business with Hitler after the U.S. entered the war.

He had his bank taken away from him for violating the trading with the
enemy act.
Post by The World Wide Wade
He never spoke out against McCarthyism,
campaigned to the right of Nixon on foreign policy, began a massive
military buildup, initiated the war in Vietnam,
Fucking liar.

Eisenhower got the U.S. involved militarily in Vietnam.
Post by The World Wide Wade
had hookers running around
the White House,
Long after Hoover was well-known for running a whorehouse in the White
House.
Post by The World Wide Wade
consorted with mobsters, was dragged kicking and screaming
into the civil rights movement, waged a clandestine war of terror and
sabotage (after the outright invasion failed) against Cuba, and nearly blew
up the world in the Cuban missile crisis.
So you were okay with Russia having ballistic missiles 90 miles away
from U.S. soil?

Fucking traitor.
Post by The World Wide Wade
Oh, I nearly forgot: JFK had a good sense of humor and was a first-rate
womanizer (what do you think the "F" stood for?).
He still can't hold a candle to the current crop of Repugs.

Like Gingrich, Hyde and Barr.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
wbarwell
2004-06-13 02:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by The World Wide Wade
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy
Oh, I nearly forgot: JFK had a good sense of humor and was a first-rate
womanizer (what do you think the "F" stood for?).
And Nancy Reagan was known in her Hollywood days as the "Blow Job Queen".
Your point?
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle


Cheerful Charlie
Flip-Flop Bush
2004-06-13 13:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by The World Wide Wade
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy
JFK was the son of a bootlegging, election-stealing, multimillionaire
who supported Hitler in the 30s.
Change that to grandson and you just described the current white house
resident.
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon

"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Golitely
2004-06-13 14:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The World Wide Wade
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy
JFK was the son of a bootlegging, election-stealing, multimillionaire who
supported Hitler in the 30s. He never spoke out against McCarthyism,
campaigned to the right of Nixon on foreign policy, began a massive
military buildup, initiated the war in Vietnam, had hookers running around
the White House, consorted with mobsters, was dragged kicking and screaming
into the civil rights movement, waged a clandestine war of terror and
sabotage (after the outright invasion failed) against Cuba, and nearly blew
up the world in the Cuban missile crisis.
Oh, I nearly forgot: JFK had a good sense of humor and was a first-rate
womanizer (what do you think the "F" stood for?).
You've got a point... only you buried it under a beany-baby of garblious claptrap.
Scott in Florida
2004-06-13 23:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Miles Long
2004-06-14 03:19:06 UTC
Permalink
For once Scott, I can't argue with the facts you posted in this one.

Miles "Silent Minority" Long

Scott in Florida wrote:
Michael Gray
2004-06-14 08:08:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:51:45 GMT, Scott in Florida
<***@nope.ucan't> wrote:
<Absolutely nothing at all>


Well Scott, that was a cogently argued position.
You've convinced me by the very force of your elegant and eloquent
sophistry.
Paul Harper
2004-06-13 08:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are head
and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan and
Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be on a
different planet.

Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
Senor Chico
2004-06-13 21:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are head
and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan and
Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be on a
different planet.
Paul.
Hurry, Paul -- the Good Ship Lollipop is about to leave without you.
Flip-Flop Bush
2004-06-14 17:13:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the
Cold War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are
head and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan
and Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be on
a different planet.
Paul.
Hurry, Paul -- the Good Ship Lollipop is about to leave without you.
Gee boy, now there's a thoughtful and well reasoned refutation.
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon

"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Senor Chico
2004-06-16 07:19:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the
Cold War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are
head and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan
and Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be on
a different planet.
Paul.
Hurry, Paul -- the Good Ship Lollipop is about to leave without you.
Gee boy, now there's a thoughtful and well reasoned refutation.
yawn...
Flip-Flop Bush
2004-06-16 14:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but
he was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to
note that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for
ending the Cold War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are
head and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan
and Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be
on a different planet.
Paul.
Hurry, Paul -- the Good Ship Lollipop is about to leave without you.
Gee boy, now there's a thoughtful and well reasoned refutation.
yawn...
Man. Where do all these literate and eloquent people come from?
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon

"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-17 20:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but
he was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to
note that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for
ending the Cold War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are
head and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan
and Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be
on a different planet.
Paul.
Hurry, Paul -- the Good Ship Lollipop is about to leave without you.
Gee boy, now there's a thoughtful and well reasoned refutation.
yawn...
Man. Where do all these literate and eloquent people come from?
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon
"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."
- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Is Bush going to do anything about prison torture in America? Scott
Peterson's very arrest is a prime example of how innocent people are
routinely tortured:

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/sween.htm
Senor Chico
2004-06-18 05:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by Senor Chico
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but
he was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to
note that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for
ending the Cold War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are
head and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan
and Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be
on a different planet.
Paul.
Hurry, Paul -- the Good Ship Lollipop is about to leave without you.
Gee boy, now there's a thoughtful and well reasoned refutation.
yawn...
Man. Where do all these literate and eloquent people come from?
What part of, ":yawn", didn't you understand, rocket scientist?
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-18 15:38:06 UTC
Permalink
I wish somebody would force people to be accountable and take the
responsibility to release an innocen tman like Scott Peterson. The
evidence has proved that he had neither the motive, the will, nor the
opportunity to murder Laci, so his confinement reflects an absolute,
inexcusable, travesty of justice:

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/sween.htm
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-21 21:08:46 UTC
Permalink
What is wrong with this picture?

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/sween.htm
bulba
2004-07-16 14:45:13 UTC
Permalink
http://www.reason.com/hod/bd101802.shtml

The Left's Weeping Clown
Michael Moore's comedy reveals the depression at the heart of the
progressive left.
By Brian Doherty



Michael Moore, America's simultaneously most-loved and most-hated
politically progressive media star, has a new movie, Bowling for
Columbine. It's in limited release in major markets in the U.S. now,
after wowing them at Cannes—a market always ready to enjoy
contemplating American barbarism—back in May.

The documentary is, on its surface, a meditation on American gun
violence. But it functions in effect as a general summation of lefty
complaints about America. In its feckless collection of sad plaints
with only the barest glimmer of a hope of solution, it is also a good
summation of the progressive left's intellectual impotence.

Moore, allegedly a very funny guy, hits the usual targets, some of
them worthwhile. Excoriated in the movie are: America's bloody
historical interventions in nations such as Iran, Vietnam, El
Salvador, Nicaragua, and Afghanistan; welfare-to-work programs; crass
and empty consumerist excrescences like Dick Clark theme restaurants;
urban air pollution; auto factory shutdowns; cops; and, yes, the
omnipresence of guns.

The first supposed-to-be funny set piece shows Moore signing up for an
account at a Michigan bank that gives a free gun to new customers.
This is a sadly typical example of political humor of any stripe,
meant not so much to be genuinely witty or funny, but to give the
self-selected viewers a pleasing frisson of agreement with the artist
in recognizing the patent risibility of what's presented.

The bank employees—those goofy hicks!—clearly don't see what's so damn
funny about giving away a useful and desirable premium. Indeed, Moore
does nothing to convince us it is funny. Perhaps he's merely playing
on his own inherently zany unkempt girth for chuckles when he proudly
walks out into the bank parking lot with his brand-new rifle slung
over his shoulder. He attempts a bit of stand-up-level wit by asking a
bank clerk, isn't it unsafe to give away guns in a bank? Of course, in
their community, among their clientele, it clearly isn't. Moore,
ostensible defender of America's common man, doesn't seem to realize
it's insulting to suggest otherwise.

With his relentless self-promotion, phony common-man image, and
tendency to get facts wrong in pursuit of his agenda, Moore makes a
big and tempting target. (Yes, his size is often picked on by his foes
as well.) With the exception of the factual errors, most of what Moore
is regularly pilloried for is irrelevant for anything other than
playing a game of spot-the-hypocrite—not necessarily the most
productive intellectual sport.

He pretends to a working class consciousness, but he's really a
millionaire Manhattanite. He makes his living bothering people with
cameras but had an old employee arrested for doing the same to him. He
sticks it to the boss man but is by most accounts such an unpleasant
man to work for that one former staffer called him "not just ruthless,
but sadistic" and like "Idi Amin—without the laughs."

But Moore gained his wealth fairly, by selling products many people
wanted to buy. As he would surely point out, he didn't even have to
lay off thousands or sell weapons to do so. And if those who excoriate
him for having his camera-stalker arrested are saying he was wrong to
do it, then what he did to the head of GM in his career-making
documentary Roger and Me was OK. At worst, these examples impugn his
moral authority. They don't say much about whether his basic stances
and strategies are right or wrong.

So Moore, big target though he may be, won't be easily felled by the
(many) stories of the "he's an annoying self-promoting blowhard"
variety, as amusing as such accounts are. He's still going strong—his
latest book, Stupid White Men, is in its 31st week on The New York
Times best-seller list, and its 32nd printing.

A memo on his Web site, urging his fans to strike a blow for justice
by giving Bowling for Columbine a big opening weekend, is almost
charming in its self-aggrandizement. Moore really does seem to believe
that his being rich and famous is the strongest sign of hope for
progressivism in America today.

But his new documentary implies that he is the only hope. Moore's
message is powerfully presented. In his telling, America is a naked
city full of a million stories, all of them bummers. Deluded Michigan
militia men prancing through the woods (the only people in the movie
who voice the argument that it is a personal responsibility to defend
yourself and your family, and that guns can be an important aid to
that function); scary hidden-camera shots of the Columbine massacre
with anguished 911 calls superimposed; black woman navigating
perilously between the Scylla of having a shitty service job and the
Charybdis of not having a shitty service job; and racists scaring us
to death with bogus tales of "Africanized" killer bees on their way.

And of course, lots and lots of shooting deaths. Moore's fearmongering
about gun deaths presents stories and raw numbers with no per capita
or time series comparisons. Firearm homicides fell from 1991 to 1999
by nearly 40 percent, but Moore doesn't tell you that.

He just tells you that the world is sad. Young men driven mad by high
school status games become mass killers; 6-year-olds kill 6-year-olds
because mothers have to work. Factories close down; tragic murders
occur overseas thanks to U.S. imperialism. You can play Louis
Armstrong singing "What A Wonderful World" over scenes of stacked
corpses and it's a sad, sad thing.

But except for one bright moment—when Our Hero himself, as he presents
it, pressures Kmart into promising to phase out ammunition sales—there
is no meaningful hint of an answer as to how to make the world a less
sad place. Moore raises many of the obvious answers to the conundrum
of American shooting deaths—our violent history, our violent pop
culture, the presence of so many weapons—and pretty much debunks them
all. Bowling for Columbine does not make a pro-gun control case. It is
more existential nightmare than political document. It has no answers.

Critics have picked on Bowling for Columbine's final scene as an
example of Moore's tendency to go too far. He beards Charlton Heston,
president of the National Rifle Association, in his lair and asks him
some tough questions about America's high shooting death
numbers—questions Moore himself couldn't answer.

Heston stumbles toward mentioning our ethnic composition, then
realizes he'd better stop. He doesn't have a good answer. Moore tries
to show him a photo of a 6-year-old gunned down by another 6-year-old.
Moses stumbles imperiously away, and doesn't look back. Moore's action
is not meaningless cruelty. The head of an organization standing for
gun rights should damn well be prepared to address emotional anecdotal
arguments about the tragedies that guns can cause. Heston failed here,
not Moore.

But Moore, like Heston, ultimately has to walk away from his toughest
question without answers. Because the only thing that ultimately
explains each individual gun death is an individual's choice to pull a
trigger. Sociology can't provide the thousands of separate answers to
why thousands of individuals made that choice. Any pressures of
background or culture or poverty that weighed on the shooters weighed
similarly on thousands of other non-shooters.

In the end, Moore, like the progressive left he stands for, has no
valid solutions. Gun control laws won't stop gun crimes; Canadians
also have plenty of guns and not many gun deaths. No one thinks that a
life on welfare is a better option in the long term than trying to
work for a living. Grander socialist dreams died with the Soviet
Union. All the progressive left has are laments, tears, and tragedies.
That suffices to sell movie tickets—moviegoers have always loved
tragedy. It isn't enough for a lively and effective political
movement.




--
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
David Galehouse
2004-07-16 14:55:19 UTC
Permalink
"bulba" <***@bulba.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
Gee! Thanks for keeping us up to date with this 2 year-old opinion piece!
bulba
2004-07-16 15:02:36 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:55:19 -0400, "David Galehouse"
Post by David Galehouse
Gee! Thanks for keeping us up to date with this 2 year-old opinion piece!
Which still applies, esp. WRT the Moore's "style", disguising
his agenda as "common man's values" and being sadistic
towards his own workers and got someone arrested for
following him with camera even though he did it himself
to Heston.

It's a good evidence Moore is a hypocrite, 2 years
ago and today.




--
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
David Galehouse
2004-07-16 15:03:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:55:19 -0400, "David Galehouse"
Post by David Galehouse
Gee! Thanks for keeping us up to date with this 2 year-old opinion piece!
Which still applies, esp. WRT the Moore's "style", disguising
his agenda as "common man's values" and being sadistic
towards his own workers and got someone arrested for
following him with camera even though he did it himself
to Heston.
It's a good evidence Moore is a hypocrite, 2 years
ago and today.
I suppose it *might* be, were it true, but that *piece* was thoroughly
discredited and debunked a long time ago! Digging it up and posting it
"anew" doesn't change that! LOL!
bulba
2004-07-16 15:17:01 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:03:48 -0400, "David Galehouse"
Post by David Galehouse
Post by bulba
Which still applies, esp. WRT the Moore's "style", disguising
his agenda as "common man's values" and being sadistic
towards his own workers and got someone arrested for
following him with camera even though he did it himself
to Heston.
It's a good evidence Moore is a hypocrite, 2 years
ago and today.
I suppose it *might* be, were it true, but that *piece* was thoroughly
discredited and debunked a long time ago!
I wasn't debunked and in not any way that could be called
"thoroughly", just a few maniacs screeched and whined
in high-pitched voices. No counter-argument of substance
has been made.





--
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
David Galehouse
2004-07-16 17:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:03:48 -0400, "David Galehouse"
Post by David Galehouse
Post by bulba
Which still applies, esp. WRT the Moore's "style", disguising
his agenda as "common man's values" and being sadistic
towards his own workers and got someone arrested for
following him with camera even though he did it himself
to Heston.
It's a good evidence Moore is a hypocrite, 2 years
ago and today.
I suppose it *might* be, were it true, but that *piece* was thoroughly
discredited and debunked a long time ago!
I wasn't debunked and in not any way that could be called
"thoroughly", just a few maniacs screeched and whined
in high-pitched voices. No counter-argument of substance
has been made.
You're the original author of the "piece"?
Paul Harper
2004-07-16 15:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
That's lovely.

Couldn't you just use a toaster like most people, though?

Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
bulba
2004-07-16 15:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Harper
Post by bulba
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
That's lovely.
Couldn't you just use a toaster like most people, though?
No, that doesn't satisfy my imperialistic urges.




--
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
Submariner
2004-07-16 14:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
Yeah, nothing like screaming babies, eh, nazi cunt?

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute

The Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) calls itself "a non-profit,
non-partisan research and advocacy institute dedicated to the principles of free
enterprise and limited government." The Boston Globe has called it "one of
Washington's feistiest think tanks." CEI's commentaries frequently appear in
media venues such as ABC's 20/20, American Spectator, Christian Science Monitor,
Consumers' Research, Crossfire, Forbes, Good Morning America, Larry King Live,
MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour, Moneyline, New York Times, Policy Review, PBS,
Reader's Digest, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post and Washington
Times. It postures as an advocate of "sound science" in the development of
public policy. In fact, it is an ideologically-driven, well-funded front for
corporations opposed to safety and environmental regulations that affect the way
they do business.

CEI says its main activities are media interest group education, coalition
building, policy analysis, advocacy, and litigation. It publishes a newsletter,
the CEI Update, as well as various reports with titles such as, "Clean Fuels,
Dirty Air, Environmental Politics." Ongoing programs include:


a.. A Death by Regulation project (sometimes referred to as its "Free Market
Legal Program") aimed at "shifting the policy debate" about environmental
regulations by making the argument that "government intervention carries its own
deadly consequences." It claims, for example, that automobile emissions
standards drive consumers to buy smaller, flimsier automobiles, causing more
deaths from car crashes. Similarly, it argues that there are "adverse public
health effects of medical drug regulation and nutritional labeling." Drug
regulations, it says, keep new medications off the market. As for nutritional
labeling, it believes that wine makers should be able to advertise that wine
consumption prevents heart attacks. However, there should be no requirement for
labeling of milk from cows treated with genetically-engineered bovine growth
hormone.
b.. The Warren T. Brookes Fellowships in Environmental Journalism, named after
a now-deceased economist and marketing executive turned conservative newspaper
columnist and author of books such as The Individual as Capital and What is
Progressive About Taxation? The Brookes Fellowships are "yearly appointments
granted to journalists to enable them to research, study and write about private
and public approaches to environmental protection. During their Fellowship,
appointees are also expected to contribute to the environmental public policy
debate through speaking engagements, media interviews and other activities.
c.. An Environmental Policy Program, which claims to focus on "the development
and promotion of free market approaches to environmental policy."
More on corporate fascist, propagandist, piece of crap Doherty:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute
chainsaw
2004-07-16 15:08:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Submariner
Post by bulba
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
Yeah, nothing like screaming babies, eh, nazi cunt?
We'll have to ask John Kerry about that one.
bulba
2004-07-16 15:19:53 UTC
Permalink
http://www.reason.com/links/links070104.shtml


Moore Didn't Start the Fire
Why Fahrenheit 9/11 fails to ignite
Brian Doherty



The one time I met Michael Moore, he told me a wildly entertaining
story about how, right after all the pointy-heads at Mother Jones
fired him because he was portly and from the Midwest, he grabbed a
bunch of union cameramen and charged in on Morton Kondracke and asked
him to please recite the Patriot Act, seeing as how he'd voted for it
and all.

Kondracke, as Moore tells it, sheepishly admitted he didn't remember a
thing about the Act, then turned aggressive. He first ordered Moore
angrily out of his Cape Cod office, then shot at the documentarian,
barely missing him. It seemed like his whole tale didn't hold together
in some way I couldn't pin down while he recited it, but he had me
laughing hysterically—especially with his very vivid use of Flint,
Michigan street colloquialisms to describe how Kondracke's feckless
shot parted his hair. (Sorry, I've forgotten the precise
colloquialism.)

Don't bother fact-checking his ass, or mine. I never met Michael
Moore, and that story is a baroque fantasy formed from my
half-memories of all the similar stories of Moore whoppers that always
seem to come up when writing about him.

My mind drifted to such fantasies while watching his new hit film
because Fahrenheit 9/11 itself is—and this was a genuine surprise to
me—so disappointingly dull. It's only the firestorm of discourse
surrounding it that has created enough ambient heat to warm this
tedious farrago and make it seem palatable. As is blindingly obvious
from all the fooferaw surrounding the movie, Fahrenheit 9/11 works as
a chemical test whereby your preconceptions can be determined by
observing what color you turn upon exposure to it. Those opposed to
its thesis of course find it painfully propagandistic and based on
some verifiable untruths; those sympathetic manage to smile on it
indulgently even while seeing its flaws.

That said, I'll lay out the prejudices I brought into this movie, a
movie I sincerely regret having found a failure. Obviously, I was
never a big Moore fan. But I was prepared to view this film with
charity, and to hope it would succeed in its goals, because I am
sympathetic to its thesis. I agree that George Bush is a terrible
president and that the war in Iraq should not have been fought. (I
shamefully acknowledge that I am the only pundit whose dispassionate
viewing was in any way warped by anything as petty as my
predispositions, and I hope confessing to it here can in some small
way atone for that sin.)

This affected, for one example, my comparative reactions to the bits
of Moore's trademark meant-to-be-funny "gotcha" bits in this movie vs.
ones in Bowling for Columbine. In Columbine, Moore attacks Dick Clark
with cameras for the sin of having financial interests in restaurants
that gave people jobs that didn't instantly solve all their family
problems. That I found not only unentertaining as dark cinema comedy,
but stupid, because I couldn't begin to see Moore's point—to do so
requires a general animus toward capitalism that I don't have.

But I was rooting for two similar examples from Moore in Fahrenheit:
reciting the Patriot Act from an ice cream truck circling Washington
D.C. streets, and encouraging congressmen to get their children to
enlist in the armed forces. That's because I both see, and agree, with
the points behind them: that congressmen should understand the laws
they impose on us, and that they should seriously consider the
personal, human costs of the wars they allow presidents to wage.
Still, even I found those scenes in Fahrenheit falling flat and barely
eliciting a chuckle—mostly because there was nothing particularly
comic or unexpected about the reactions of the people at whom Moore
tried to toss his pranksterish monkeywrench. (The ice cream bit is
funnier to read about than watch—even Moore seems to realize this,
letting the scene end abruptly.)

The movie, as everyone in the world has already pointed out, has many
journalistic problems. Beyond any actual misstatements of fact, these
problems are inherent in the necessary thinness of a two-hour movie,
which in verbal terms will be at best the equivalent of a mid-length
magazine feature. This film, though, is trying to make a case that
demands a book to detail and explain in full.

For example, it is certainly interesting that James Bath, who was in
the Texas Air National Guard with Bush in the early '70s, later became
a financial advisor to the Bin Laden family and donated money to some
of Bush's early business ventures. Interesting, but what of it? We
really need to dig a little deeper to learn anything useful from that
factoid—or to learn if there's anything useful to be learned from it.
The mere accumulation of "links" without any deeper understanding of
what those links mean is not only unilluminating, it's not even very
good propaganda: There are dozens of reasons to be appalled that the
Bush family, or the U.S. government, is cozy and kind and friendly
with the Saudis. But except for the fact that Osama and 15 of the 9/11
hijackers were Saudi nationals, this movie doesn't even hint at any of
them. (Indeed, Moore evinces a particularly old-fashioned, Flint,
Michigan style hard-hat leftism here, daring the doyens of diversity
to attack. Some key bits in Fahrenheit ride on representations of
foreigners, whether Saudi or Palauan, as sinister and/or risible
merely because they look and dress funny to Middle American eyes.)

Like so many human conflicts—especially ones over group identity and
tribal values, which is what the liberal v. conservative divide within
the two-party context mostly is—arguments both within this movie and
between it and its detractors swirl not so much around verifiable
specific facts but around overarching narratives and assumptions about
motives. What was Bush thinking as he was told about the Twin Tower
attacks while entertaining a room full of kids? What were the real
motives behind attacking Iraq? (Little noted regarding this fiercely
anti-Bush foreign policy film is the fact that the words "neocon" and
"Israel" are not, in my memory, uttered once, and Moore is nowhere
gonzo enough to engage in any specific conspiracy theorizing, as
opposed to weirdly suggestive "links.") Are the financial links
between the Bush family and Saudi interests, between the Carlyle Group
and weapons manufacturers, between oil companies, pipeline schemes,
and the war in Afghanistan, actually dispositive about the decisions
the U.S. government has made, before and after 9/11?

Well, I guess it's possible, but this movie comes nowhere close to
proving it, or even shedding light down the paths one would have to
walk to begin trying to prove it. I'd like to be able to pay the movie
the compliment of saying that even by bringing such issues to the
table, Moore has done a public service—a little public choice analysis
when applied to government actions, whether domestic or foreign, is
always welcome and should never be dismissed out of hand as
"conspiracy mongering."

But Moore's style and tone are never those that invite further
investigation; they are those of the cop at a tough collar. He has
caught Bush here, and there, and everywhere, Moore says; and the only
question to be asked is, do we just vote him out or string him up? But
if you asked the hard question: What have we caught him doing, this
movie never provides a very clear answer. Being indecisive, and being
rash; helping impose a police state, but not giving a lonely Oregon
cop the homeland security resources he needs; starting a war in
Afghanistan, and not doing it fast enough and hard enough; being in
thrall to the Saudis, while simultaneously waging a war in Iraq that
the Saudis decidedly did not want. (To be fair, or maybe unfair, Moore
doesn't tell us that last part.)

By the time the chronological walk through Bush's presidency gets us
to Iraq, this becomes a movie not so much about Bush and why he is a
bad president as about war and what it can do. Cavils about "balance"
and "fairness" from war supporters regarding this movie are almost all
bitter jokes—I'll take seriously complaints that this movie has too
many bloody corpses, smiling pre-invasion Iraqis, and weeping mothers
only from those whose pro-war discourse grapples seriously with the
fact that there were/are any of those.

Works of art or journalism that are dedicatedly and fairly
representative of the dizzyingly broad and complicated skein of
reality are to be applauded and treasured. But they aren't the only
kind that deserve to exist in discourse over public policy. Boldly
staking out ground is also useful. Moore's movie sells itself as
two-fisted goal-oriented agitprop, so it is only fair to judge it as
such. (And even as such, it fails.) But it does deliver some truths
about war that too much standard discourse elides: That it makes young
men enthusiastic murderers—and then can make them disillusioned, cold,
empty, and haunted. That what we did in Iraq—whatever else it
did—destroyed the lives, hopes, homes, and loves of many, many
ordinary people who used to walk down the streets of Baghdad smiling,
laughing, and playing; that it left and continues to leave many
mothers of both Iraqis and American soldiers bent over in grief and
crying out to God for understanding that will never come.

Whatever Moore's other failures of journalism and art, that is both a
specific factual truth and a deep spiritual truth about war that it is
always appropriate to bring to the table, and one that any defender of
this war, or any, should neither fear addressing, nor scoff at or
belittle when it is brought to the fore.


--
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
blazinglaser
2004-07-16 17:37:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
http://www.reason.com/links/links070104.shtml
Basically what Doherty is saying here in so many words (-so- many
words!) is that Michael Moore is a liar because Doherty doesn't agree
with him. Big Whoop, as they say in NY.

The old double standard is still in place. Moore does no worse in the
opinion/attitude department than Hannity or Limbaugh, and quite a bit
better in the fact-checking department.
bulba
2004-07-16 17:53:17 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:37:00 -0700, blazinglaser <nospam.please>
Post by blazinglaser
Post by bulba
http://www.reason.com/links/links070104.shtml
Basically what Doherty is saying here in so many words (-so- many
words!) is that Michael Moore is a liar because Doherty doesn't agree
with him.
Basically, you have slashed the reasons where Doherty has
demonstrated that Moore has caught Bush so many
times but did not show what was so naughty that Bush
was doing.
Post by blazinglaser
Big Whoop, as they say in NY.
The old double standard is still in place. Moore does no worse in the
opinion/attitude department than Hannity or Limbaugh, and quite a bit
better in the fact-checking department.
Er, the only problem is, that is not what article was about.




--
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
Philippic
2004-07-16 19:02:47 UTC
Permalink
"blazinglaser" <nospam.please> wrote in message
news:dd4gf0tr1hlm1u5ciomu9rshdqm3v62pno
Post by blazinglaser
The old double standard is still in place. Moore does no worse in the
opinion/attitude department than Hannity or Limbaugh, and quite a bit
better in the fact-checking department.
In addition, Moore - unlike Limbaugh! - hasn't been embarrassingly exposed
as having broken the law to feed a secret addiction to controlled drugs...

Philippic
chainsaw
2004-07-16 18:23:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philippic
"blazinglaser" <nospam.please> wrote in message
news:dd4gf0tr1hlm1u5ciomu9rshdqm3v62pno
Post by blazinglaser
The old double standard is still in place. Moore does no worse in the
opinion/attitude department than Hannity or Limbaugh, and quite a bit
better in the fact-checking department.
In addition, Moore - unlike Limbaugh! - hasn't been embarrassingly exposed
as having broken the law to feed a secret addiction to controlled drugs...
Philippic
What law did he break?
Philippic
2004-07-16 20:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by chainsaw
Post by Philippic
In addition, Moore - unlike Limbaugh! - hasn't been embarrassingly exposed
as having broken the law to feed a secret addiction to controlled drugs...
Philippic
What law did he break?
Jeezes!! I think this twit *really doesn't know*...!

Philippic
chainsaw
2004-07-16 20:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philippic
Post by chainsaw
Post by Philippic
In addition, Moore - unlike Limbaugh! - hasn't been embarrassingly
exposed
Post by chainsaw
Post by Philippic
as having broken the law to feed a secret addiction to controlled
drugs...
Post by chainsaw
Post by Philippic
Philippic
What law did he break?
Jeezes!! I think this twit *really doesn't know*...!
I know what law Martha Stwart broke, because she went to trial and got
convicted. But Limbaugh hasn't been charged with a single thing. In fact,
there's a pretty strong case the prosecutor has violated Limbaugh's
Constitutional rights and that Limbaugh will never even be charged.

So please, indulge me. What law did Limbaugh violate?

blazinglaser
2004-07-16 19:53:26 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:02:47 GMT, "Philippic"
Post by Philippic
In addition, Moore - unlike Limbaugh! - hasn't been embarrassingly exposed
as having broken the law to feed a secret addiction to controlled drugs...
Kind of beside the point. I think drug addiction should be seen as a
health problem, not a legal one. However it does serve as an
excellent example (if we ever needed another one) of the incredible
hypocracy of the Right. Do as we say, not as we do.
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-13 19:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Harper
Post by Madelin McKinnon
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
In terms of integrity and vision, those Gorbachev and Kennedy are head
and shoulders about the likes of the cold war warriors Reagan and
Thatcher and so far ahead of the numbnut Bush family as to be on a
different planet.
Paul.
Well said Paul. But what's wrong with the media? The funny thing is
that according to the media, Reagan did not exist between 1992 and
1994. The media has developed the same amnesian as Reagan had. At
least Reagan had an excuse.


http://www.geocities.com/mobaster/gipper.htm
Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist
2004-06-13 23:32:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy and Michael Gorbachev. Speaking at Reagan's
funeral. Michael Gorbachev made it clear that Reagan did not win the
Cold War, when he said;
"Was it accurate to say that Reagan won the Cold War? That's not
serious. I think we all lost the Cold War, particularly the Soviet
Union... We only won when the Cold War ended."
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
http://www.geocities.com/mobaster/gipper.htm
I remember being a teenager during the Reagan years, living in fear that the
world was literally one day away from ending on the whim of a senile
religious fanatic who saw Armageddon as a good thing to look forward to.
It's interesting that he didn't start thinking sensibly until after his mind
had started to rot! You know who Reagan always reminded me of.....Slim
Pickens riding that bomb to the ground whooping and hollering, waving his
cowboy hat at the end of "Dr. Strangelove".
Obatala
2004-06-14 09:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist
I remember being a teenager during the Reagan years, living in fear that the
world was literally one day away from ending on the whim of a senile
religious fanatic who saw Armageddon as a good thing to look forward to.
And what has changed?
Post by Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist
It's interesting that he didn't start thinking sensibly until after his mind
had started to rot! You know who Reagan always reminded me of.....Slim
Pickens riding that bomb to the ground whooping and hollering, waving his
cowboy hat at the end of "Dr. Strangelove".
Fredric L. Rice
2004-06-15 02:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Obatala
Post by Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist
I remember being a teenager during the Reagan years, living in fear that the
world was literally one day away from ending on the whim of a senile
religious fanatic who saw Armageddon as a good thing to look forward to.
And what has changed?
Reagan became more and more unable to piece together sentences and it's
believed that he was removed quietly from all decision making toward the
end, operating as a symbolic figure until the next Presidential Election.

"This is the end of the innocence" was a good song, written about Reagan
and his atrocities around the world and in America.

---
Scientology tries to disrupt terrorist attacks relief efforts: http://www.cosvm.org/
I'm going to propose to my Senators that they cut off welfare funds that go to
suscribing Internet services. That should eliminate 1/2 of the Democratic Party
extremists from posting their anti American garbage. -- Jaberwokie (Republican)
Obatala
2004-06-16 11:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredric L. Rice
Post by Obatala
Post by Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist
I remember being a teenager during the Reagan years, living in fear that the
world was literally one day away from ending on the whim of a senile
religious fanatic who saw Armageddon as a good thing to look forward to.
And what has changed?
Reagan became more and more unable to piece together sentences and it's
believed that he was removed quietly from all decision making toward the
end, operating as a symbolic figure until the next Presidential Election.
"This is the end of the innocence" was a good song, written about Reagan
and his atrocities around the world and in America.
I was actually talking abou the president today. Another religious
nutter that thinks that armagedoon is a good idear.
Flip-Flop Bush
2004-06-14 17:14:42 UTC
Permalink
"Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist"
Post by Carpe Clayton...Seize The Atheist
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy and Michael Gorbachev. Speaking at Reagan's
funeral. Michael Gorbachev made it clear that Reagan did not win the
Cold War, when he said;
"Was it accurate to say that Reagan won the Cold War? That's not
serious. I think we all lost the Cold War, particularly the Soviet
Union... We only won when the Cold War ended."
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the
Cold War.
http://www.geocities.com/mobaster/gipper.htm
I remember being a teenager during the Reagan years, living in fear
that the world was literally one day away from ending on the whim of a
senile religious fanatic who saw Armageddon as a good thing to look
forward to. It's interesting that he didn't start thinking sensibly
until after his mind had started to rot! You know who Reagan always
reminded me of.....Slim Pickens riding that bomb to the ground
whooping and hollering, waving his cowboy hat at the end of "Dr.
Strangelove".
Major Kong.
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon

"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
David T. Hardy
2004-06-14 03:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy and Michael Gorbachev. Speaking at Reagan's
funeral. Michael Gorbachev made it clear that Reagan did not win the
Cold War, when he said;
"Was it accurate to say that Reagan won the Cold War? That's not
serious. I think we all lost the Cold War, particularly the Soviet
Union... We only won when the Cold War ended."
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
I assume you're pretty young ... JFK died in 1963, many decades before
the Cold War ended. He won election in 1960 on a platform of the
"missile gap," that Eisenhower hadn't built enough nuclear missiles,
and let the Soviet Union get ahead of us. He was an emphatic (if often
not terribly successful) Cold Warrior. Berlin Wall speech, Cuban
Missile Crisis, Bay of Pigs, CIA covert ops, involvement in Vietnam,
etc, etc.
Obatala
2004-06-14 09:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David T. Hardy
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy and Michael Gorbachev. Speaking at Reagan's
funeral. Michael Gorbachev made it clear that Reagan did not win the
Cold War, when he said;
"Was it accurate to say that Reagan won the Cold War? That's not
serious. I think we all lost the Cold War, particularly the Soviet
Union... We only won when the Cold War ended."
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
I assume you're pretty young ... JFK died in 1963, many decades before
the Cold War ended. He won election in 1960 on a platform of the
"missile gap," that Eisenhower hadn't built enough nuclear missiles,
and let the Soviet Union get ahead of us. He was an emphatic (if often
not terribly successful) Cold Warrior. Berlin Wall speech, Cuban
Missile Crisis, Bay of Pigs, CIA covert ops, involvement in Vietnam,
etc, etc.
And after the cold war, the number of weapons on the eastern side
were a bit less then they stated, as ussual I would say. So he probably
had enough nuclear weapons.(unless you think that there is no such
a thing as enough ;o) )
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-14 13:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by David T. Hardy
Post by Madelin McKinnon
The Cold war ended because of the cool, objective sanity of leaders
like John F. Kennedy and Michael Gorbachev. Speaking at Reagan's
funeral. Michael Gorbachev made it clear that Reagan did not win the
Cold War, when he said;
"Was it accurate to say that Reagan won the Cold War? That's not
serious. I think we all lost the Cold War, particularly the Soviet
Union... We only won when the Cold War ended."
Michael Gorbachev may not be honored with a majestic funeral, but he
was the Soviet Union's John F. Kennedy, and it is important to note
that Gorbachev and John F. Kennedy are responsible for ending the Cold
War.
I assume you're pretty young ... JFK died in 1963, many decades before
the Cold War ended. He won election in 1960 on a platform of the
"missile gap," that Eisenhower hadn't built enough nuclear missiles,
and let the Soviet Union get ahead of us. He was an emphatic (if often
not terribly successful) Cold Warrior. Berlin Wall speech, Cuban
Missile Crisis, Bay of Pigs, CIA covert ops, involvement in Vietnam,
etc, etc.
That's right, and if Kennedy was not murdered, he would have ended the
cold War in 1968. GET THE PICTURE? -YES, i AM CLAIRVOYANT.

http://www.geocities.com/mobaster/gipper.htm
Submariner
2004-06-13 02:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Did you see it? Where? Or are you just talking out your ass?
I'd bet on the latter, because I can smell the fear.
Post by Flip-Flop Bush
--
"If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with
this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the
good."
- Ronald Reagan, accepting responsibility for deaths
of 241 marines in Lebanon
"I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have.
I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not
quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."
- George W. Bush, shirking all responsibility.
Albert Camus
2004-06-12 19:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Most of it is news footage, leads me to believe that it is a fairly
accurqate accoubt of the last 4 years..Of course im talking out my ass
because I have yet to see it.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Albert Camus
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Most of it is news footage, leads me to believe that it is a fairly
accurqate accoubt of the last 4 years..Of course im talking out my ass
because I have yet to see it.
Although the trailer looks interesting.

Miles "Cinema Verite" Long
Post by Albert Camus
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Albert Camus
2004-06-14 06:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by Albert Camus
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Most of it is news footage, leads me to believe that it is a fairly
accurqate accoubt of the last 4 years..Of course im talking out my ass
because I have yet to see it.
Although the trailer looks interesting.
Miles "Cinema Verite" Long
yes, it was very cool!!



Albert "Bush is the Plague" Camus
Obatala
2004-06-12 19:04:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush.
If you have something new to tell, like, I don`t agree with the family Bush,
you may return, until then, bye.
Post by SB
Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
no they end your day, some people are so stupid. ;o)
SB
2004-06-12 20:52:36 UTC
Permalink
AH, what a true liberal.
Post by Obatala
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush.
If you have something new to tell, like, I don`t agree with the family Bush,
you may return, until then, bye.
Post by SB
Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
no they end your day, some people are so stupid. ;o)
Obatala
2004-06-12 21:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
AH, what a true liberal.
liberal, what is that? different places in the world have different
flavours of politics, just projecting your countries limited pallet
of political choices won`t cut it my friend.
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
AH, what a true liberal.
What an idiotic response. Who'd want to be a false liberal?

Miles "This Guy's Moronic Repartee is Priceless" Long
Post by SB
Post by Obatala
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush.
If you have something new to tell, like, I don`t agree with the family
Bush,
Post by Obatala
you may return, until then, bye.
Post by SB
Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of
the
Post by Obatala
Post by SB
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
no they end your day, some people are so stupid. ;o)
Tempest
2004-06-12 20:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.

How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
SB
2004-06-12 20:51:52 UTC
Permalink
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.
How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Rev. 11D Meow!
2004-06-12 21:02:16 UTC
Permalink
With friends like this, who needs enemas?
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of
the
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.
How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Tempest
2004-06-12 21:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Why is it a majority of the rightwing who post on in the newsgroup are
illiterate?
Post by SB
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of
the
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.
How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Why is it a majority of the rightwing who post on in the newsgroup are
illiterate?
They can't see the value of education.

Miles "Deaf, Dumb and Blind..." Long
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of
the
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.
How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Tempest
2004-06-13 03:05:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Why is it a majority of the rightwing who post on in the newsgroup are
illiterate?
They can't see the value of education.
Miles "Deaf, Dumb and Blind..." Long
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans... unless they
have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be
too much of a good thing."

Karl Rove, Bush's long-time political guru and White House advisor
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Submariner
2004-06-13 13:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tempest
Post by Miles Long
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Why is it a majority of the rightwing who post on in the newsgroup are
illiterate?
They can't see the value of education.
Miles "Deaf, Dumb and Blind..." Long
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans... unless they
have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be
too much of a good thing."
Karl Rove, Bush's long-time political guru and White House advisor
And it's not just spelling and grammar. The above nut can't even write 2
sentences in a row that are logically compatible.

In the Blue states they ask, "What are you reading?".

In the Red states they ask, "What are you reading fer?".
Tempest
2004-06-13 17:34:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Submariner
Post by Tempest
Post by Miles Long
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Why is it a majority of the rightwing who post on in the newsgroup are
illiterate?
They can't see the value of education.
Miles "Deaf, Dumb and Blind..." Long
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans... unless they
have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be
too much of a good thing."
Karl Rove, Bush's long-time political guru and White House advisor
And it's not just spelling and grammar. The above nut can't even write 2
sentences in a row that are logically compatible.
It's not surprising, neither can their feckless leader.
Post by Submariner
In the Blue states they ask, "What are you reading?".
In the Red states they ask, "What are you reading fer?".
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:12:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Illiterate to boot!

Miles "This Guy's Never Going to Get Out of His Own Way" Long
Post by SB
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of
the
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.
How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Tempest
2004-06-13 03:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by SB
No character assassination going on here, just the truth. The liberals no
nothing but character assassination.
Illiterate to boot!
Miles "This Guy's Never Going to Get Out of His Own Way" Long
He's definitely a candidate for a Darwin award.

Most likely for getting run over by his own car.
Post by Miles Long
Post by SB
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of
trash
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of
the
Post by Tempest
Post by SB
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Can't refute the facts so you resort to character assassination.
How fascist of you.
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
--
"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher
Robert
2004-06-12 21:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Have you seen the film? Then you don't know what you are talking about
Philippic
2004-06-12 21:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Have you seen the film? Then you don't know what you are talking about
Anyone who wants to see the *trailer* can go to www.michaelmoore.com ...

Philippic
Robert Holland
2004-06-12 23:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Who better to film a study of the GW Bush than a slimeball? It is a
natural match, and that's why this film will be soooo good!
Miles Long
2004-06-13 01:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Jeez SB, besides the grammatical mistakes in your cute little note, you
haven't even seen the movie . How stupid is that?

Miles "Another New Victim of the Dumbing Down of America" Long
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Submariner
2004-06-13 03:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on. So you two veterans of the
Clinton-Gore years come get me, "Make My Day."
Jeez SB, besides the grammatical mistakes in your cute little note, you
haven't even seen the movie . How stupid is that?
Miles "Another New Victim of the Dumbing Down of America" Long
If SB saw the movie, she would see that Poppy's a traitor and a war criminal.

The best Poppy could do to refute the overwhelming evidence against him was to
call Moore a slimeball. I would be honored to be called a slimeball by a traitor
and
war criminal.

Of course, SB would probably miss the movie's salient points because she'd be
crawling around on the floor collecting the free "ABC" gum.
Post by Miles Long
Post by SB
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Mr. N
2004-06-13 17:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL."
What makes Moore a "slimeball"?

Be specific.
Post by SB
Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash and a waste of film that the
movie was put on.

So you've seen the film then?
--
-Mr. N
-------------------------------------------
"President Bush said in his speech Monday night that the war in Iraq is "the
central front in the war on terror." It's not the central front in the war
on terror, but it has unfortunately become the central recruiting office for
terrorists. [Dick Cheney said, "This war may last the rest of our lives.]
The unpleasant truth is that President Bush's utter incompetence has made
the world a far more dangerous place and dramatically increased the threat
of terrorism against the United States. "
-Former Vice-President Al Gore, speech at New York Univeristy, May 26, 2004
wbarwell
2004-06-14 02:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. N
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL."
What makes Moore a "slimeball"?
He says things right wing shit monkies do not like.
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle


Cheerful Charlie
Fredric L. Rice
2004-06-13 18:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by SB
George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball."
If Mr. George Bush Snr did say Moor is a "Slimeball," I agree with Mr.
Bush. Moor is a "SLIMEBALL." Moore movie is nothing but a piece of trash
and a waste of film that the movie was put on.
Course this opinion is from a buttfuck that never actually saw it.

---
Scientology tries to disrupt terrorist attacks relief efforts: http://www.cosvm.org/
I'm going to propose to my Senators that they cut off welfare funds that go to
suscribing Internet services. That should eliminate 1/2 of the Democratic Party
extremists from posting their anti American garbage. -- Jaberwokie (Republican)
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend <>
2004-06-12 19:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
I don't know if that's smart. Maybe it's best to just ignore the
critics, esp the unkown ones.
Fredric L. Rice
2004-06-13 18:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
Hell, the leftard is pretending he's Scientology.
Post by RH
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
---
Scientology tries to disrupt terrorist attacks relief efforts: http://www.cosvm.org/
I'm going to propose to my Senators that they cut off welfare funds that go to
suscribing Internet services. That should eliminate 1/2 of the Democratic Party
extremists from posting their anti American garbage. -- Jaberwokie (Republican)
Progressive with an Attitude
2004-06-13 18:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredric L. Rice
Post by RH
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
Hell, the leftard is pretending he's Scientology.
Post by RH
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
---
Scientology tries to disrupt terrorist attacks relief efforts: http://www.cosvm.org/
I'm going to propose to my Senators that they cut off welfare funds that go to
suscribing Internet services. That should eliminate 1/2 of the Democratic Party
extremists from posting their anti American garbage. -- Jaberwokie (Republican)
Ignorance is no excuse for this post.
hank
2004-06-13 23:30:09 UTC
Permalink
***@yahoo.com (RH) wrote in message news:<***@posting.google.com>...
........................................................
So its ok to call him a fat Pig...cause he is.

What he is doing is a typical jew tactic.

To hell with free speach.

peace
love
hank
.............................................
Post by RH
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Obatala
2004-06-14 09:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank
........................................................
So its ok to call him a fat Pig...cause he is.
What he is doing is a typical jew tactic.
To hell with free speach.
Yeah, I have to pay for everything too, no 'free' speech
What do you think , that we are commies or something, free, huh,
you have to pay, like any 'r e a l' american ;o)
MF Ogilvie
2004-06-14 11:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH
Mr Moore has set up a campaign-style "war room" to counter his
critics, headed by two veterans of the Clinton-Gore years, Mark
Fabiani and Chris Lehane. "We will allow no attack on this film to go
without a response immediately," Mr Moore told yesterday's Los Angeles
Times. "And we will go after anyone who slanders me or my work, and we
will do it without mercy..."
..George Bush Snr was quoted recently calling Mr Moore a "slimeball".
But party operatives, for the moment, are seeking to depict Fahrenheit
9/11 more as entertainment than a serious critique of the man in the
Oval Office...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=530688.
Hey slobbo...you want some cheese to go with that whine?
Frank Church
2004-06-16 21:16:42 UTC
Permalink
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad at
Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover up that envy.
MM is an American success story made whole, and they hate that. They
would rather see people like Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.

To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
bulba
2004-06-17 14:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad at
Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover up that envy.
MM is an American success story made whole, and they hate that. They
would rather see people like Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful, famous
and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to musicians to writers
like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet they are not hated like this.

Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but vicious,
degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Miles Long
2004-06-17 14:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad at
Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover up that envy.
MM is an American success story made whole, and they hate that. They
would rather see people like Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful, famous
and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to musicians to writers
like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but vicious,
degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Just out of curiosity, just what lies has Moore told?

Miles "Curiosity killed the cat, Satisfaction brought it back" Long
bulba
2004-06-17 15:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by bulba
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Just out of curiosity, just what lies has Moore told?
For example, supposed proportions of blacks to
the rest of population in Canada and US wrt
gun violence, that those two boys who went
on insane shooting in Columbine were bowling
together in the morning on that they (they were
not, but it looks good for title of the movie and
makes Moore LOOK smart) he portraited rockets
launching telecommunication or TV satellites as
weapons of mass destruction (they were
weapons of mass distraction really) bc it looks his
clownish tears look so righteous in context of oh
such amount of evil next to those shooting boys' doors.

Moore is a poet of lying, sort of.
Tempest
2004-06-17 20:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad at
Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover up that envy.
MM is an American success story made whole, and they hate that. They
would rather see people like Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful, famous
and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to musicians to writers
like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but vicious,
degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Just out of curiosity, just what lies has Moore told?
He was thinking of Bush again.
Post by Miles Long
Miles "Curiosity killed the cat, Satisfaction brought it back" Long
Woodard R. Springstube
2004-06-18 01:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Long
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad
at Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover
up that envy. MM is an American success story made whole,
and they hate that. They would rather see people like
Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful,
famous and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to
musicians to writers like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet
they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but
vicious, degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Just out of curiosity, just what lies has Moore told?
Miles "Curiosity killed the cat, Satisfaction brought it
back" Long
See: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Just to give one example, Moore showed himself going into a
bank, opening an account, and walking out with a rifle. That
whole thing was set up weeks in advance, with Moore doing all
required paperwork in advance so that the rifle could be
delivered at the bank. Ordinary customers who opened the
account got only a gift certificate that they had to take to a
gun shop in another town, where they did all of the paperwork,
did the federal and state background checks, and, if they
passed, got their rifle. Moore tried to give the impression
that *everybody* could just walk in, open and account and walk
out with a rifle. That was certainly deceptive.
Tempest
2004-06-18 03:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
Post by Miles Long
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad
at Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover
up that envy. MM is an American success story made whole,
and they hate that. They would rather see people like
Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful,
famous and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to
musicians to writers like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet
they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but
vicious, degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Just out of curiosity, just what lies has Moore told?
Miles "Curiosity killed the cat, Satisfaction brought it
back" Long
See: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Just to give one example, Moore showed himself going into a
bank, opening an account, and walking out with a rifle. That
whole thing was set up weeks in advance, with Moore doing all
required paperwork in advance so that the rifle could be
delivered at the bank.
This is a lie.

The bank officials not only stated they had over 100 guns in the bank,
but they showed Moore the guns.

You apparently didn't see the film.

Neither did the people at the cite you provided if they claim Moore lied.
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
Ordinary customers who opened the
account got only a gift certificate that they had to take to a
gun shop in another town, where they did all of the paperwork,
did the federal and state background checks, and, if they
passed, got their rifle. Moore tried to give the impression
that *everybody* could just walk in, open and account and walk
out with a rifle. That was certainly deceptive.
It was the truth.

You just can't handle it.
mr_antone <mr_antone@>
2004-06-18 13:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tempest
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
Post by Miles Long
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad
at Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover
up that envy. MM is an American success story made whole,
and they hate that. They would rather see people like
Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful,
famous and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to
musicians to writers like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet
they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but
vicious, degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Just out of curiosity, just what lies has Moore told?
Miles "Curiosity killed the cat, Satisfaction brought it
back" Long
See: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Just to give one example, Moore showed himself going into a
bank, opening an account, and walking out with a rifle. That
whole thing was set up weeks in advance, with Moore doing all
required paperwork in advance so that the rifle could be
delivered at the bank.
This is a lie.
The bank officials not only stated they had over 100 guns in the bank,
but they showed Moore the guns.
You apparently didn't see the film.
Neither did the people at the cite you provided if they claim Moore lied.
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
Ordinary customers who opened the
account got only a gift certificate that they had to take to a
gun shop in another town, where they did all of the paperwork,
did the federal and state background checks, and, if they
passed, got their rifle. Moore tried to give the impression
that *everybody* could just walk in, open and account and walk
out with a rifle. That was certainly deceptive.
It was the truth.
You just can't handle it.
I expected the file to be anti-gun.
After watching it, really it's anti-violence.
Good film.

To simply call Moore a liar shows how weak an argument these idiots
have.

mr_antone

--------------------------------------------------------
Bonde spins like a top in the same thread:
- You better believe we are in Iraq because of 9/11.
- Where did I say that 9/11 was Iraq?
-----------------------------------------------------------
More spin
- Are you too stupid to see how we could be in Iraq because
of 9/11 but that Iraq wasn't necessarily involved in 9/11?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bonde explains why he pulled out Clinton's penis
- Clinton's penis is the defence that Liberals use whenever
Conservatives want to actually discuss Clinton's policies.
-----------------------------------------------------------
More talk from Bonde about Clinton's penis
-Watch what happens when a Conservative brings up Clinton,
just talks about Clinton era policies, you'll see the Liberals
bring up Clinton's penis as both their sword and their shield.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Xbot
2004-06-19 03:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tempest
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
See: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Just to give one example, Moore showed himself going into a
bank, opening an account, and walking out with a rifle. That
whole thing was set up weeks in advance, with Moore doing all
required paperwork in advance so that the rifle could be
delivered at the bank.
This is a lie.
The bank officials not only stated they had over 100 guns in the bank,
but they showed Moore the guns.
You apparently didn't see the film.
And you apparently didn't question what you did see:

http://bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm
Indeed, there's more, a lot more, to this story. In an interview, Jan
Jacobson, the woman at this bank shown in the movie, says they were filmed
for about an hour-and-a-half during which she explained everything to Moore
in detail. But, the way things were presented in the film, Jacobson says, it
looks like "a wham-bam thing." She says she resents the way she was
portrayed as some kind of "backwoods idiot" mindlessly handing out guns. She
says Moore deceived her into being interviewed by saying of their
long-gun-give-away program: "This is so great. I'm a hunter, a sportsman,
grew up in Michigan, am an NRA member." She says: "He went on and on and on
saying this was the most unique program he'd ever heard of." This is the
first example of how Moore completely deceives and manipulates his subjects
to be made to look stupid in his film. Unfortunately, it is not the last and
more unfortunately, an ignorant audience plays patsy to Moore's dishonest
depiction.

Jacobson says the movie is misleading because it leaves the impression that
a person can come in, sign up and walk out with a gun. But, this is not done
because no guns are kept at her bank, although one would think so. She says
that ordinarily a person entitled to one of the long-guns must go to a
gun-dealer where the gun is shipped.

In fact, despite what BFC wants us to believe, Jacobson says there are no
long-guns at her bank. The 500 guns mentioned in the movie are in a vault
four hours away. But wait a second... Didn't I see some long guns sitting
right there on the rack above her shoulder? Yes - you're not going crazy -
those guns you saw (as shown in the picture up the page) are models.

She says that Moore's signing papers in the film was just for show. His
immediately walking out of the bank with a long-gun was allowed because
"this whole thing was set up two months prior to the filming of the movie"
when he had already complied with all the rules, including a background
check.

</spank>
Post by Tempest
Neither did the people at the cite you provided if they claim Moore lied.
Oh, they've seen the film several times. Try to work up the courage to read
through the site and you'll see how thoroughly they debunk Moore's
bait-and-switch tactics and outright lies, which are prevalent in BFC.
Jonesing to hear Michael Moore's unedited response? Look no further than:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/index.php

And then check back to this website for a dissection of Moore's deliberate
avoidance and mischaracterization of the issues he was called on:

http://www.hardylaw.net/replytomoore.html
Post by Tempest
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
Ordinary customers who opened the
account got only a gift certificate that they had to take to a
gun shop in another town, where they did all of the paperwork,
did the federal and state background checks, and, if they
passed, got their rifle. Moore tried to give the impression
that *everybody* could just walk in, open and account and walk
out with a rifle. That was certainly deceptive.
It was the truth.
You just can't handle it.
The words "Michael Moore" and "truth" have absolutely no business in the
same sentence. Go ahead, try to defend Moore's claim that had he left
Charlton Heston's speech unaltered it actually would have made Heston look
MORE evil than the hatchet job he did perform. Try to defend Moore's claim
that the NRA is directly descended from the KKK, instead of from Union
officers who were the KKK's enemies (Moore didn't even attempt to address
that one.) When you're done, tell us how Moore's claim that he had two
cameramen to capture his supposed "in-the-moment" reaction to Heston walking
away holds water when one of the cameramen would have had to be in the
other's field of view, yet surprisingly is nowhere to be seen. Nope, no
after-the-fact manipulation going on there...
Raoul Duke
2004-06-20 20:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xbot
Post by Tempest
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
See: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Just to give one example, Moore showed himself going into a
bank, opening an account, and walking out with a rifle. That
whole thing was set up weeks in advance, with Moore doing all
required paperwork in advance so that the rifle could be
delivered at the bank.
This is a lie.
The bank officials not only stated they had over 100 guns in the bank,
but they showed Moore the guns.
You apparently didn't see the film.
http://bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm
Indeed, there's more, a lot more, to this story. In an interview, Jan
Jacobson, the woman at this bank shown in the movie, says they were filmed
for about an hour-and-a-half during which she explained everything to Moore
in detail. But, the way things were presented in the film, Jacobson says, it
looks like "a wham-bam thing." She says she resents the way she was
portrayed as some kind of "backwoods idiot" mindlessly handing out guns. She
says Moore deceived her into being interviewed by saying of their
long-gun-give-away program: "This is so great. I'm a hunter, a sportsman,
grew up in Michigan, am an NRA member." She says: "He went on and on and on
saying this was the most unique program he'd ever heard of." This is the
first example of how Moore completely deceives and manipulates his subjects
to be made to look stupid in his film. Unfortunately, it is not the last and
more unfortunately, an ignorant audience plays patsy to Moore's dishonest
depiction.
Jacobson says the movie is misleading because it leaves the impression that
a person can come in, sign up and walk out with a gun. But, this is not done
because no guns are kept at her bank, although one would think so. She says
that ordinarily a person entitled to one of the long-guns must go to a
gun-dealer where the gun is shipped.
In fact, despite what BFC wants us to believe, Jacobson says there are no
long-guns at her bank. The 500 guns mentioned in the movie are in a vault
four hours away. But wait a second... Didn't I see some long guns sitting
right there on the rack above her shoulder? Yes - you're not going crazy -
those guns you saw (as shown in the picture up the page) are models.
She says that Moore's signing papers in the film was just for show. His
immediately walking out of the bank with a long-gun was allowed because
"this whole thing was set up two months prior to the filming of the movie"
when he had already complied with all the rules, including a background
check.
</spank>
Post by Tempest
Neither did the people at the cite you provided if they claim Moore lied.
Oh, they've seen the film several times. Try to work up the courage to read
through the site and you'll see how thoroughly they debunk Moore's
bait-and-switch tactics and outright lies, which are prevalent in BFC.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/index.php
And then check back to this website for a dissection of Moore's deliberate
http://www.hardylaw.net/replytomoore.html
Post by Tempest
Post by Woodard R. Springstube
Ordinary customers who opened the
account got only a gift certificate that they had to take to a
gun shop in another town, where they did all of the paperwork,
did the federal and state background checks, and, if they
passed, got their rifle. Moore tried to give the impression
that *everybody* could just walk in, open and account and walk
out with a rifle. That was certainly deceptive.
It was the truth.
You just can't handle it.
The words "Michael Moore" and "truth" have absolutely no business in the
same sentence. Go ahead, try to defend Moore's claim that had he left
Charlton Heston's speech unaltered it actually would have made Heston look
MORE evil than the hatchet job he did perform. Try to defend Moore's claim
that the NRA is directly descended from the KKK, instead of from Union
officers who were the KKK's enemies (Moore didn't even attempt to address
that one.) When you're done, tell us how Moore's claim that he had two
cameramen to capture his supposed "in-the-moment" reaction to Heston walking
away holds water when one of the cameramen would have had to be in the
other's field of view, yet surprisingly is nowhere to be seen. Nope, no
after-the-fact manipulation going on there...
You believe it because it is on the Internet? You are a real dumb
fuck, aren't you?
---

Raoul Duke
Xbot
2004-06-21 15:48:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raoul Duke
You believe it because it is on the Internet? You are a real dumb
fuck, aren't you?
Says the Moore-on who believes anything he hears out of his hero's mouth, no
matter how self-serving and no matter how many times it's been debunked.

Self-described leftie film critic Roger Ebert has problems with Moore's
accuracy, too. Let me guess, he's also lying, right?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-moore18.html

"The pitfall for Moore is not subjectivity, but accuracy. We expect him to
hold an opinion and argue it, but we also require his facts to be correct. I
was an admirer of his previous doc, the Oscar-winning "Bowling for
Columbine," until I discovered that some of his "facts" were wrong, false or
fudged.
"In some cases, he was guilty of making a good story better, but in other
cases (such as his ambush of Charlton Heston) he was unfair, and in still
others (such as the wording on the plaque under the bomber at the Air Force
Academy) he was just plain wrong, as anyone can see by going to look at the
plaque.

"Because I agree with Moore's politics, his inaccuracies pained me, and I
wrote about them in my Answer Man column. Moore wrote me that he didn't
expect such attacks "from you, of all people." But I cannot ignore flaws
simply because I agree with the filmmaker. In hurting his cause, he wounds
mine."

Yeah, Moore doesn't make shit up at all - it's just the right wing wackos
and their "oh-so-carefully edited" web pages that claim he does. Look at
Moore's characterization of Ebert's rightful pointing out of his mistakes as
an "attack" - what a pathetic spineless turd. Anyone who criticizes him, no
matter how justified, is "attacking" poor helpless professional victim Mikey
(and of course he completely misses the irony that they're "attacking" him
with the truth about his lies whereas his attacks on the right are so often
just that, lies. So it's okay for him to make up whatever load of crap he
wants about anyone, being carefult to mainly malign public figures who have
no legal recourse, but if someone just exposes his sleazeball tactics for
what they are, it's unfair. What a childish, egotistical buffoon.)

I got a good laugh out of seeing him squirm on Dateline, too. It's obvious
the mainstream media that accepted BFC at face value and gave it such
glowing reviews is not going to make the same mistake twice. "Fool me
once..."

Moore supporters like the ones on this NG who actually still think the guy
doesn't lie may be the dumbest, most gullible pigeons on the planet. Of
course, as with their hero, they're the first ones to cast aspersions on
their opponents. It would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that at
least a couple of these basket cases are probably eligible to vote.

Oh yeah, regarding the bomber at the Air Force Academy Ebert mentioned -
Moore repeats the lie that the plaque says it was used to bomb a Vietnamese
village in his DVD commentary, long after he was called on the fact that the
plaque says nothing of the sort, but rather discusses an enemy MiG which the
bomber brought down. In fact, he goes from saying the plaque "proudly
proclaims that the plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve of 1972"
in the film to making the lie even more inflammatory with talking about
"thousands upon thousands of Vietnamese -- innocent civilians!" That's how
much faith Moore has in the ignorance of his target audience.

From what I've seen here, that "faith" is well-deserved.
.impervious
2004-06-17 15:29:53 UTC
Permalink
In news:***@4ax.com,
bulba attempted to impart some wisdom, instead sputtering:

: On 16 Jun 2004 14:16:42 -0700, ***@rocketmail.com (Frank Church)
: wrote:
:
:: This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad at
:: Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover up that envy.
:: MM is an American success story made whole, and they hate that. They
:: would rather see people like Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
:
: Many other people are a lot more famous and successful, famous
: and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to musicians to writers
: like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet they are not hated like this.

but many of them are. Gates, for example, is one of the most reviled
people in the world - how many people do you know that think Bill is
anything other than a money-grubbing, idea-stealing, law-evading prick?
probably quite a few. and it's because of this envy.

: Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but vicious,
: degenerated liar.
:
:: To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
:
: Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.

take the "d" off the end of the word there, big guy. i hate to correct
you, but i wouldn't want to send you off to school armed with big words
that you're saying wrong.

in short: prove Moore is a liar.
--
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans -- unless they
have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be
too much of a good thing."
-- Karl Rove
bulba
2004-06-17 15:45:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:29:53 GMT, ".impervious"
Post by .impervious
: Many other people are a lot more famous and successful, famous
: and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to musicians to writers
: like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet they are not hated like this.
but many of them are. Gates, for example, is one of the most reviled
people in the world - how many people do you know that think Bill is
anything other than a money-grubbing, idea-stealing, law-evading prick?
probably quite a few. and it's because of this envy.
OK, Gates is not a good example. Pick any celebrity out there,
actors, writers, filmmakers - hundreds, if not thousands of
them more accomplished, famous and rich than Moore.

So this argument of envy is really stupid. Why should
I be more envious of Moore than of Ridley Scott (now
THAT is somebody to be envious of)?
Post by .impervious
: Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but vicious,
: degenerated liar.
:: To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
: Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
take the "d" off the end of the word there, big guy. i hate to correct
you, but i wouldn't want to send you off to school armed with big words
that you're saying wrong.
Spelling flame, a symptom of petty mentality.

FYI, I'm not American or British. Not a native English
speaker, anyway.
Post by .impervious
in short: prove Moore is a liar.
I gave a few examples in another post.
Steveo
2004-06-17 16:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad at
Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover up that envy.
MM is an American success story made whole, and they hate that. They
would rather see people like Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful, famous
and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to musicians to writers
like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but vicious,
degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Would you care to enumerate his lies for us?
Woodard R. Springstube
2004-06-18 01:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steveo
Post by bulba
Post by Frank Church
This is the usual envy. People--even on the left--are mad
at Michael's fame, and they use hyperbolic babble to cover
up that envy. MM is an American success story made whole,
and they hate that. They would rather see people like
Moore pushing a broom for Minimum wage.
Many other people are a lot more famous and successful,
famous and rich, from Gates to filmmakers Cameron to
musicians to writers like Tom Clancy to actors, and yet
they are not hated like this.
Moore is hated for being liar. Famous liar maybe, but
vicious, degenerated liar.
Post by Frank Church
To the Moore haters, I say--Kiss this!
Moore is a degenerated liar, simple as that.
Would you care to enumerate his lies for us?
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
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