Discussion:
Tell your congressman you DEMAND RETURN OF THE 55 MPH SPEED LIMIT
(too old to reply)
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
2005-04-01 06:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before bush
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it did
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
z
2005-04-01 06:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before bush
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it did
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars get 18
going 55? Screw 55 .. make better engines
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 06:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before bush
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it did
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars get 18
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
z
2005-04-01 07:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by z
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
No it does. I've measured it. I was running 28 but considering the gas
prices it was well worth while tuning up the car just right. Now I'm
hitting 30 -- and it hauls ass.

see the 2002 tii at

http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/technical.htm


-***@yada
Angus Rekktomb
2005-04-01 09:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Kowa-Monza dude...
Post by z
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by z
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18 going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
No it does. I've measured it. I was running 28 but considering the gas
prices it was well worth while tuning up the car just right. Now I'm
hitting 30 -- and it hauls ass.
see the 2002 tii at
http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/technical.htm
--
A tall waft can be done in short order...beware of the waft.

***@the-nostril.net



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Chance Hopkins
2005-04-01 07:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
No, he's serious. I had one too, an '89 325is. It got around 35mpg average
on the expressway and would go from 70 to 120 in about 4 seconds. They
engineered the engine really well. It was the way they placed the torque
band in the rpm range. Off the line they aren't that fast, but from 3500 to
7000 rpms it puts out tons of torque.
Rocketman
2005-04-01 15:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
Yes, it very well could. My old 1985 BMW 325e routinely turned in 35mpg @
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.

FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a 300hp 283
V-8 and Muncie 4-speed manual would get ~23mpg @ 55mph. It's all about
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you punch the
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts about half
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power tosses your
head into the back seat :-)

If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).

Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.

R
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 16:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
e***@netpath.net
2005-04-01 16:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
Sammy Lavish
2005-04-01 18:17:42 UTC
Permalink
Yeah every time I see a tennis mom using an H2 to buy a pair of shoes at the
mall, I see the reason the world hates America.
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
Allen Seth Dunn
2005-04-02 17:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sammy Lavish
Yeah every time I see a tennis mom using an H2 to buy a pair of shoes at the
mall, I see the reason the world hates America.
Well, too f'n bad. Many people can't afford (and/or don't have the parking
space at their home) to have a different vehicle for each of their different
needs. So they go with the one that they think would be most beneficial to
them. Granted, this doesn't apply in all circumstances, but I think the
majority of cases, it is true.
Post by Sammy Lavish
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sammy Lavish
Yeah every time I see a tennis mom using an H2 to buy a pair of shoes at the
mall, I see the reason the world hates America.
Is she supposed to own two cars to assuage your sensibilities?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Rocketman
2005-04-02 18:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Bill
Post by Sammy Lavish
Yeah every time I see a tennis mom using an H2 to buy a pair of shoes at the
mall, I see the reason the world hates America.
Is she supposed to own two cars to assuage your sensibilities?
No soccer mom *needs* an oversized $50,000 GM pickup with reduced hauling
capacity, which is expressly designed as the ultimate suburban posing
vehicle. It is the most obscenely stupid consumer-oriented vehicle GM has
ever made, bar none. The "Hummer Lite" possesses none of the true grit of
the original, and has all of the disadvantages of the pickup frame upon
which it is built. It's not a pickup. It's not a van. It's not fast. It's
not safe. It's not practical in any way. It's not beautiful. It gets
rotten gas mileage. It's the ultimate poseur vehicle for those who think
bigger and more obscenely conspicuous is always better.

But then, nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of
American consumers.

R
Big Bill
2005-04-02 19:57:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 18:41:43 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Post by Big Bill
Post by Sammy Lavish
Yeah every time I see a tennis mom using an H2 to buy a pair of shoes at the
mall, I see the reason the world hates America.
Is she supposed to own two cars to assuage your sensibilities?
No soccer mom *needs* an oversized $50,000 GM pickup with reduced hauling
capacity, which is expressly designed as the ultimate suburban posing
vehicle. It is the most obscenely stupid consumer-oriented vehicle GM has
ever made, bar none. The "Hummer Lite" possesses none of the true grit of
the original, and has all of the disadvantages of the pickup frame upon
which it is built. It's not a pickup. It's not a van. It's not fast. It's
not safe. It's not practical in any way. It's not beautiful. It gets
rotten gas mileage. It's the ultimate poseur vehicle for those who think
bigger and more obscenely conspicuous is always better.
But then, nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of
American consumers.
R
Wow. Were you bitten by an SUV as a child?
Could you possibly throw in a few more provocative words, or is this
it?
Do you even know what "objective" means?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Lost Year 1972
2005-04-01 18:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
Why is it mandatory to constantly entertain children by hauling truckloads
of crap all over creation?

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lost Year 1972
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by Lost Year 1972
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by Lost Year 1972
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
Why is it mandatory to constantly entertain children by hauling truckloads
of crap all over creation?
I am sure you will never have this problem. If you do you would simply
use your shotgun on the kids, then hopefully on yourself.
Post by Lost Year 1972
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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
They quit making station wagons because nobody bought them. I had a
Taurus wagon that got better milage than my Jeep Cherokee and carried
just as much stuff. Was not as reliable though. Also had a Dodge
Caravan that got better milage and carried more stuff. Wife doesn't
want another van though.
Nate Nagel
2005-04-01 22:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it
just
Post by e***@netpath.net
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more
than
Post by e***@netpath.net
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
They quit making station wagons because nobody bought them. I had a
Taurus wagon that got better milage than my Jeep Cherokee and carried
just as much stuff. Was not as reliable though. Also had a Dodge
Caravan that got better milage and carried more stuff. Wife doesn't
want another van though.
Nobody bought them because mfgrs. quit making them because of CAFE, not
because consumers didn't want to buy them. Since trucks have different
standards, they were still available so people bought those instead.

A Taurus... well of course it was unreliable, but that has nothing to do
with its wagon-ness.

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Magnulus
2005-04-02 02:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Nagel
Nobody bought them because mfgrs. quit making them because of CAFE, not
because consumers didn't want to buy them. Since trucks have different
standards, they were still available so people bought those instead.
They have continued to make wagons despites SUV's and CAFE. They just
aren't as popular as they once were. Station wagons for a long while had a
bad image, then the minivan got the same image.
Nate Nagel
2005-04-02 03:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magnulus
Post by Nate Nagel
Nobody bought them because mfgrs. quit making them because of CAFE, not
because consumers didn't want to buy them. Since trucks have different
standards, they were still available so people bought those instead.
They have continued to make wagons despites SUV's and CAFE. They just
aren't as popular as they once were. Station wagons for a long while had a
bad image, then the minivan got the same image.
They also got a lot smaller and less useful.

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Allen Seth Dunn
2005-04-02 17:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Nagel
Post by Magnulus
Post by Nate Nagel
Nobody bought them because mfgrs. quit making them because of CAFE, not
because consumers didn't want to buy them. Since trucks have different
standards, they were still available so people bought those instead.
They have continued to make wagons despites SUV's and CAFE. They just
aren't as popular as they once were. Station wagons for a long while had a
bad image, then the minivan got the same image.
They also got a lot smaller and less useful.
Indeed. All one has to do is look at the remaining Volvo wagons (new ones I
mean, since I think Volvo has been trying to go the sedan route as of late),
and compare that to the station wagons of the 70s and 80s.
Post by Nate Nagel
nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
2005-04-01 18:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big interior
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole purpose
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving crazy
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul your
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it just
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is their
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more than
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole purpose
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving crazy
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH..
We bought the Jeep Cherokee, because .... it was one of the safest cars
on the road. Burns more fuel but worth it.
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 22:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul
your
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it
just
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is
their
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more
than
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole purpose
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving crazy
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH..
We bought the Jeep Cherokee, because .... it was one of the safest cars
on the road. Burns more fuel but worth it.
That's my point, you moron. It's safer for you and deadly for the poor
bums you crash into with your terror driving.
Steven Canyon
2005-04-01 22:38:32 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Apr 2005 14:25:41 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul
your
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it
just
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons
(no
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is
their
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more
than
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole
purpose
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving
crazy
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH..
We bought the Jeep Cherokee, because .... it was one of the safest
cars
Post by e***@netpath.net
on the road. Burns more fuel but worth it.
That's my point, you moron. It's safer for you and deadly for the poor
bums you crash into with your terror driving.
<LOL> let them get a safer car.



--

Did Zepp Jamieson really think he was going to get away with posting
as "Greywolf the Wanderer" long ago?


The similarities are too many to be a coincidence.

Let's examine what "each" of them said

First, Greywolf was born in Scotland and then lived in B.C. Canada, as did Zepp.
Greywolf used to be a bbs sysop in Santa Barbara, as was Zepp.
Greywolf lives near Mt Shasta in California, so does Zepp.
Greywolf has a house full of cats and 3 dogs, as does Zepp
Greywolf complains of bad eyesight, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used to work at an airport, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work as a janitor, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work at an hospital, so did Zepp
Greywolf has a samoyed named Monk, so does Zepp
Greywolf complains of "rhuematiz", as does Zepp
Greywolf says he is dyslexic, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used Zepp's ISP account and even used Zepp's computer
Greywolf claims to be a writer, as does Zepp
Greywolf says that he's a wiccan and Zepp does a lot of writing about wiccans.
Greywolf's favorite quote is "evolution in action," Zepp used that for one of his "commentaries."
Greywolf's an alcoholic who stopped drinking, Zepp says he's had problems with alcohol
so he quit drinking a long time ago.

Are Greywolf and Zepp the same person?

Now what about all those homosexual fantasy stories that he wrote about the startrek characters as "Greywolf?"

... and "Zepp/Greywolf" cheerfully described himself as "queer as a three dollar bill."
Rocketman
2005-04-02 18:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Canyon
On 1 Apr 2005 14:25:41 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul
your
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it
just
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons
(no
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is
their
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more
than
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole
purpose
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving
crazy
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH..
We bought the Jeep Cherokee, because .... it was one of the safest
cars
Post by e***@netpath.net
on the road. Burns more fuel but worth it.
That's my point, you moron. It's safer for you and deadly for the poor
bums you crash into with your terror driving.
<LOL> let them get a safer car.
Thanks for proving that you'd rather kill your fellow Americans than make a
careful decision about how and what you drive.

Avoid responsibility and blame the victim - that's Bush-era mentality in a
nutshell.

R
Steven Canyon
2005-04-02 19:03:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 18:44:37 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Post by Steven Canyon
On 1 Apr 2005 14:25:41 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul
your
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it
just
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons
(no
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is
their
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more
than
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole
purpose
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving
crazy
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH..
We bought the Jeep Cherokee, because .... it was one of the safest
cars
Post by e***@netpath.net
on the road. Burns more fuel but worth it.
That's my point, you moron. It's safer for you and deadly for the poor
bums you crash into with your terror driving.
<LOL> let them get a safer car.
Thanks for proving that you'd rather kill your fellow Americans than make a
careful decision about how and what you drive.
But I do make a careful decision about what and how I drive.....
Post by Rocketman
Avoid responsibility and blame the victim - that's Bush-era mentality in a
nutshell.
Irony anyone?




--

Did Zepp Jamieson really think he was going to get away with posting
as "Greywolf the Wanderer" long ago?


The similarities are too many to be a coincidence.

Let's examine what "each" of them said

First, Greywolf was born in Scotland and then lived in B.C. Canada, as did Zepp.
Greywolf used to be a bbs sysop in Santa Barbara, as was Zepp.
Greywolf lives near Mt Shasta in California, so does Zepp.
Greywolf has a house full of cats and 3 dogs, as does Zepp
Greywolf complains of bad eyesight, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used to work at an airport, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work as a janitor, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work at an hospital, so did Zepp
Greywolf has a samoyed named Monk, so does Zepp
Greywolf complains of "rhuematiz", as does Zepp
Greywolf says he is dyslexic, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used Zepp's ISP account and even used Zepp's computer
Greywolf claims to be a writer, as does Zepp
Greywolf says that he's a wiccan and Zepp does a lot of writing about wiccans.
Greywolf's favorite quote is "evolution in action," Zepp used that for one of his "commentaries."
Greywolf's an alcoholic who stopped drinking, Zepp says he's had problems with alcohol
so he quit drinking a long time ago.

Are Greywolf and Zepp the same person?

Now what about all those homosexual fantasy stories that he wrote about the startrek characters as "Greywolf?"

... and "Zepp/Greywolf" cheerfully described himself as "queer as a three dollar bill."
Big Bill
2005-04-02 19:58:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 18:44:37 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Post by Steven Canyon
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
That's my point, you moron. It's safer for you and deadly for the poor
bums you crash into with your terror driving.
<LOL> let them get a safer car.
Thanks for proving that you'd rather kill your fellow Americans than make a
careful decision about how and what you drive.
Avoid responsibility and blame the victim - that's Bush-era mentality in a
nutshell.
R
Well, I hope you drive a small, dangerous-to-the-occupants car, so
that when you hit a SUV, you'll solve your own peoblem.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Nate Nagel
2005-04-01 22:32:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream.
Gas
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
Bullshit. SUVs are the car of FAMILIES. You just can't haul
your
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
sons' Scout camping gear to the campout in a Toyota Prius - as it
just
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
doesn't have enough interior space.
It's obviously before your time, but full-size station wagons (no
longer made) were that family car of the 1960s-70s. The SUV is
their
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
replacement for couples who actually have kids - particularly more
than
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
two - and they or their kids do lots of things requiring big
interior
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by e***@netpath.net
room.
HAHA. SUVs have nothing to do with hauling gear. THeir sole purpose
is so little worms like you can feel like a big man by driving crazy
figuring if there's a crash, the other guy will be killed, not you.
URAPSYCHOPATH..
We bought the Jeep Cherokee, because .... it was one of the safest cars
on the road. Burns more fuel but worth it.
That's a specious argument if I ever heard one. A Cherokee is actually
an excellent vehicle, but I would never call it "safe." Damn thing
handles about as well as a '49 Cadillac.

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
z
2005-04-01 18:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a
statement
Post by Rocketman
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
Yup - every time i see a SUV with a flag on it, i want to scream. Gas
guzzler owners hate american soldiers.
What My point was with my 30 year old car being pretty efficient (OK
sometimes I might get only 29 MPG or maybe 31..) what the hell have the
auto industry been doing for 30 years? I saw on some car and driver show
they were long term testing some hundae or some small car I can't
remember the name -- about the size of mine. They said It has 140 HP and
has been averaging 23 MPG. WHATT?? Like I said my car has 130+ HP and
gets at least 28, and by my last test it got 30.

So I'm just curious why the engineers haven't improved things that much.
Certainly have for computers and a lot of other industries.

-***@yada
Brent P
2005-04-01 16:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
If you want people to conserve fuel, eliminate CAFE, reduce/eliminate
income taxes, increase fuel/sales taxes. Tax consumption. That will get
people to conserve. Anything else is bound to fail and cause more
problems.

I'd rather have no speed limit and drive less than have idioticly low
speed limits determined by the fuel economy of vehicles with carburators
that never saw the inside of a wind tunnel.
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
2005-04-01 18:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brent P
Post by Rocketman
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
If you want people to conserve fuel, eliminate CAFE, reduce/eliminate
income taxes, increase fuel/sales taxes. Tax consumption. That will get
people to conserve. Anything else is bound to fail and cause more
problems.
I'd rather have no speed limit and drive less than have idioticly low
speed limits determined by the fuel economy of vehicles with carburators
that never saw the inside of a wind tunnel.
Well then, you're a psychopath. Lowering speed limits in the 70s
saved 9,000 lives a year and you call that idiotic.!!!
Rocketman
2005-04-01 19:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by Brent P
Post by Rocketman
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
If you want people to conserve fuel, eliminate CAFE, reduce/eliminate
income taxes, increase fuel/sales taxes. Tax consumption. That will get
people to conserve. Anything else is bound to fail and cause more
problems.
I'd rather have no speed limit and drive less than have idioticly low
speed limits determined by the fuel economy of vehicles with carburators
that never saw the inside of a wind tunnel.
Well then, you're a psychopath. Lowering speed limits in the 70s
saved 9,000 lives a year and you call that idiotic.!!!
~3,000 Americans die tragically in two skyscrapers, and we declare de facto
martial law and launch two aggressive wars.

~9,000 MORE people die violently EACH YEAR so you can get to work 5 minutes
faster, and nobody cares.

This is a crazy country, huh?

R
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 22:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Well then, you're a psychopath. Lowering speed limits in the 70s
saved 9,000 lives a year and you call that idiotic.!!!
~3,000 Americans die tragically in two skyscrapers, and we declare de facto
martial law and launch two aggressive wars.
~9,000 MORE people die violently EACH YEAR so you can get to work 5 minutes
faster, and nobody cares.
This is a crazy country, huh?
R
Yuppers it is. We have 3000 deaths on the highways every month. A WTC
every month and we could make a huge dent in that number by a little
thing like lowering speed limits. But boobus americanus doesn't want
that.
Steven Canyon
2005-04-01 22:38:39 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Apr 2005 14:27:51 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by Rocketman
Post by Rocketman
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Well then, you're a psychopath. Lowering speed limits in the 70s
saved 9,000 lives a year and you call that idiotic.!!!
~3,000 Americans die tragically in two skyscrapers, and we declare de
facto
Post by Rocketman
martial law and launch two aggressive wars.
~9,000 MORE people die violently EACH YEAR so you can get to work 5
minutes
Post by Rocketman
faster, and nobody cares.
This is a crazy country, huh?
R
Yuppers it is. We have 3000 deaths on the highways every month. A WTC
every month and we could make a huge dent in that number by a little
thing like lowering speed limits. But boobus americanus doesn't want
that.
Hey, you can slow down if you want.. Oh wait, your car probably can't
go over 50 anyway.



--

Did Zepp Jamieson really think he was going to get away with posting
as "Greywolf the Wanderer" long ago?


The similarities are too many to be a coincidence.

Let's examine what "each" of them said

First, Greywolf was born in Scotland and then lived in B.C. Canada, as did Zepp.
Greywolf used to be a bbs sysop in Santa Barbara, as was Zepp.
Greywolf lives near Mt Shasta in California, so does Zepp.
Greywolf has a house full of cats and 3 dogs, as does Zepp
Greywolf complains of bad eyesight, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used to work at an airport, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work as a janitor, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work at an hospital, so did Zepp
Greywolf has a samoyed named Monk, so does Zepp
Greywolf complains of "rhuematiz", as does Zepp
Greywolf says he is dyslexic, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used Zepp's ISP account and even used Zepp's computer
Greywolf claims to be a writer, as does Zepp
Greywolf says that he's a wiccan and Zepp does a lot of writing about wiccans.
Greywolf's favorite quote is "evolution in action," Zepp used that for one of his "commentaries."
Greywolf's an alcoholic who stopped drinking, Zepp says he's had problems with alcohol
so he quit drinking a long time ago.

Are Greywolf and Zepp the same person?

Now what about all those homosexual fantasy stories that he wrote about the startrek characters as "Greywolf?"

... and "Zepp/Greywolf" cheerfully described himself as "queer as a three dollar bill."
DTJ
2005-04-02 01:48:35 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:55:30 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
~9,000 MORE people die violently EACH YEAR so you can get to work 5 minutes
faster, and nobody cares.
I don't know which is worse, a troll who refuses to admit she is
ignorant of the facts and keeps claiming lower speed limits save
lives, or an idiot who listens to her.
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-02 02:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by DTJ
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:55:30 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
~9,000 MORE people die violently EACH YEAR so you can get to work 5 minutes
faster, and nobody cares.
I don't know which is worse, a troll who refuses to admit she is
ignorant of the facts and keeps claiming lower speed limits save
lives, or an idiot who listens to her.
HUH.!! Of course it saves lives, you idiot. Go to this website and
look what happened in 1974.

http://www.publicpurpose.com/hwy-fatal57+.htm
Nate Nagel
2005-04-02 03:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by DTJ
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:55:30 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
~9,000 MORE people die violently EACH YEAR so you can get to work 5
minutes
Post by DTJ
Post by Rocketman
faster, and nobody cares.
I don't know which is worse, a troll who refuses to admit she is
ignorant of the facts and keeps claiming lower speed limits save
lives, or an idiot who listens to her.
HUH.!! Of course it saves lives, you idiot. Go to this website and
look what happened in 1974.
http://www.publicpurpose.com/hwy-fatal57+.htm
The same thing that happens pretty much every year. So what?

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Danny Wall
2005-04-01 18:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
Yeah, and so do civics, focus', and a whole bunch of other cars.
Post by Rocketman
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Americans learned a long time ago that time is money.
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
You have so many sweeping generalities here that it's laughable. For
starters, Iraq isn't a war for oil. If it was we'd have our troops
protecting the oil fields and pipelines, not the cities. We'd have
Haliburton out there ripping every drop of oil out of the Iraqi sand as fast
as they could. We don't have either of those situations and oil production
in Iraq is actually LOWER than it was under Saddam. Now unless you want to
suggest that americans companies don't know how to pump oil ...

Further, the purchase of crude oil doesn't cause or create terrorism.
Therefore, driving an SUV has nothing to do with national security. We can
talk about global warming as a separate issue if you like, but driving an
SUV has nothing to do with terrorism.
Rocketman
2005-04-01 18:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danny Wall
Post by Rocketman
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
Yeah, and so do civics, focus', and a whole bunch of other cars.
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90 hp, and
has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows cargo like a
station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove cars like my Honda,
ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
Post by Danny Wall
Post by Rocketman
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Americans learned a long time ago that time is money.
Ok. Drive fast, but drive energy efficient cars and carpool. Why not offer
tax breaks for energy efficiency, and for each person you haul with you on
your commute? Then suburbanites would be clamoring to get more commuters
crammed into their energy-efficient cars.
Post by Danny Wall
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a
statement
Post by Rocketman
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
You have so many sweeping generalities here that it's laughable.
Your myopia is noted.
Post by Danny Wall
For starters, Iraq isn't a war for oil.
Yes it is.
Post by Danny Wall
If it was we'd have our troops
protecting the oil fields and pipelines, not the cities. We'd have
Haliburton out there ripping every drop of oil out of the Iraqi sand as fast
as they could. We don't have either of those situations and oil production
in Iraq is actually LOWER than it was under Saddam. Now unless you want to
suggest that americans companies don't know how to pump oil ...
It's not about immediately pumping oil by the tanker load for near-term
profits. Iraq, and the pending Iran and Syrian military takeovers, are
about establishing a permanent military dominance in the Middle East to
secure the largest remaining oil reserves for the United States, by far the
largest oil consumer in the world (per capita). The "war on terror" and
"spreading American values" are transparent and cynical ruses used to gain
needed popular support for anotherwise unsupportable imperial agenda.
Post by Danny Wall
Further, the purchase of crude oil doesn't cause or create terrorism.
Yes, it does. See above.
Post by Danny Wall
Therefore, driving an SUV has nothing to do with national security.
Oil production has already peaked. From this point on, the clock is
ticking. The more oil we use now, the sooner our nation (and all
oil-dependent nations) will meet their socioeconomic demise. "The American
Way of Life" has always been a temporary flash in the pan of history; but
now we know its days are numbered. There will no longer be an "American Way
of Life" in 30 years, probably much sooner.

Now are you beginning to see why conservation is every American's patriotic
duty?
Post by Danny Wall
We can
talk about global warming as a separate issue if you like, but driving an
SUV has nothing to do with terrorism.
Global warming isn't nearly as important, short term, as the impending
precipitous drop in oil supply, accelerated by the rapidly increasing global
oil demand (from emergent industrial superpowers such as China and India).
We have lots of competition for that oil. They want it as badly as we do.
You know what the market does when demand is high, and supply is low, don't
you?\

When gas is $5/gallon in a few years, think of this discussion.

R
Matthew Russotto
2005-04-01 19:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90 hp, and
has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows cargo like a
station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove cars like my Honda,
ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
You think you could put two nighttables and a queen sized bed
(disassembled) in your Civic VX? No? Then lets not hear about how it
can swallow cargo like a station wagon. How about several 55" x 40"
pieces of framed artwork? Didn't think so.
Post by Rocketman
Ok. Drive fast, but drive energy efficient cars and carpool. Why not offer
tax breaks for energy efficiency, and for each person you haul with you on
your commute? Then suburbanites would be clamoring to get more commuters
crammed into their energy-efficient cars.
Nope. Because trying to coordinate carpools is a problem, and it
means everyone has their schedule tied to everyone elses. It pretty
much spoils the whole point of having a car.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
Rocketman
2005-04-01 19:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Russotto
Post by Rocketman
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90 hp, and
has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows cargo like a
station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove cars like my Honda,
ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
You think you could put two nighttables and a queen sized bed
(disassembled) in your Civic VX? No? Then lets not hear about how it
can swallow cargo like a station wagon.
Well, I have hauled antique high-boy dressers and a complete dining set with
it (two separate trips). I've hauled 3 boxed bicycles at once. It can just
about swallow a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood, but you have to leave the hatch
open.
Post by Matthew Russotto
How about several 55" x 40" pieces of framed artwork?
Not a problem.
Post by Matthew Russotto
Didn't think so.
But you were wrong.

Can you drive an SUV ~600 miles without refueling?

Can you fill the tank of an SUV for a shade over $20, today?

Can you park an SUV in any parking space, anywhere?
Post by Matthew Russotto
Post by Rocketman
Ok. Drive fast, but drive energy efficient cars and carpool. Why not offer
tax breaks for energy efficiency, and for each person you haul with you on
your commute? Then suburbanites would be clamoring to get more commuters
crammed into their energy-efficient cars.
Nope. Because trying to coordinate carpools is a problem, and it
means everyone has their schedule tied to everyone elses. It pretty
much spoils the whole point of having a car.
Translation: "Sparing myself from minor inconveniences is much more
important than doing my patriotic duty to preserve national security. I
want to see more US soldiers die to secure the oil fields in the Middle
East. I'm glad that the US is dependent upon foreign oil, and I wouldn't
lift a finger to change it."

R
Matthew Russotto
2005-04-01 20:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by Matthew Russotto
Post by Rocketman
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90 hp, and
has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows cargo like a
station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove cars like my Honda,
ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
You think you could put two nighttables and a queen sized bed
(disassembled) in your Civic VX? No? Then lets not hear about how it
can swallow cargo like a station wagon.
Well, I have hauled antique high-boy dressers and a complete dining set with
it (two separate trips).
Right. This is one trip. Two separate trips all the way across New
Jersey would suck.
Post by Rocketman
Post by Matthew Russotto
How about several 55" x 40" pieces of framed artwork?
Not a problem.
Post by Matthew Russotto
Didn't think so.
But you were wrong.
You have to close the hatch in both cases.
Post by Rocketman
Can you drive an SUV ~600 miles without refueling?
Depends on the size of a gas tank.
Post by Rocketman
Can you fill the tank of an SUV for a shade over $20, today?
You can't fill any tank for a shade over $20 today. With gas at $2.10
or higher and tanks at 11.9 gallons or above...
Post by Rocketman
Can you park an SUV in any parking space, anywhere?
I've seen it done.
Post by Rocketman
Post by Matthew Russotto
Nope. Because trying to coordinate carpools is a problem, and it
means everyone has their schedule tied to everyone elses. It pretty
much spoils the whole point of having a car.
Translation: "Sparing myself from minor inconveniences is much more
important than doing my patriotic duty to preserve national security.
The inconvenience isn't minor, the appeal to patriotism is that of a
scoundrel, and the national security claim is laughable.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
z
2005-04-01 22:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Russotto
Post by Rocketman
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90
hp, and has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows
cargo like a station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove
cars like my Honda, ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
You think you could put two nighttables and a queen sized bed
(disassembled) in your Civic VX? No? Then lets not hear about how it
can swallow cargo like a station wagon. How about several 55" x 40"
pieces of framed artwork? Didn't think so.
Here's a thought. Buy a truck and use it when you need it and otherwise
drive a regular car. I've got a 1970 f150 4x4 that gets about 10 MPG, but
I only use it when I need to haul something, or get somewhere that requires
four wheel drive. I'd be foolish to use that for anything else.
Magnulus
2005-04-02 02:51:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Here's a thought. Buy a truck and use it when you need it and otherwise
drive a regular car. I've got a 1970 f150 4x4 that gets about 10 MPG, but
I only use it when I need to haul something, or get somewhere that requires
four wheel drive. I'd be foolish to use that for anything else.
Exactly.
Rocketman
2005-04-02 16:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by Matthew Russotto
Post by Rocketman
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90
hp, and has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows
cargo like a station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove
cars like my Honda, ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
You think you could put two nighttables and a queen sized bed
(disassembled) in your Civic VX? No? Then lets not hear about how it
can swallow cargo like a station wagon. How about several 55" x 40"
pieces of framed artwork? Didn't think so.
Here's a thought. Buy a truck and use it when you need it and otherwise
drive a regular car. I've got a 1970 f150 4x4 that gets about 10 MPG, but
I only use it when I need to haul something, or get somewhere that requires
four wheel drive. I'd be foolish to use that for anything else.
Bingo. What does it cost to license and insure a 1970 truck? ~$300/yr?
That's half of one monthly payment on an SUV, not to mention gas guzzler
tax, insurance, depreciation, etc.

Another possibility, that could become a reality with the right incentives,
would be community-sponsored pools of hauling vehicles, specifically for the
purpose of providing temporary, convenient hauling capacity for those who
need it. Local rental companies where I live will rent you a pickup for
$30/day. And yes, they are open on weekends.

So many options for those who wish to do their patriotic duty to their
country.

R
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-02 16:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Another possibility, that could become a reality with the right incentives,
would be community-sponsored pools of hauling vehicles, specifically for the
purpose of providing temporary, convenient hauling capacity for those who
need it. Local rental companies where I live will rent you a pickup for
$30/day. And yes, they are open on weekends.
So many options for those who wish to do their patriotic duty to their
country.
R
Scrap the "community-sponsored pools of hauling vehicles" idea. That's
never gonna work. But the rental companies are another story. I've
rented large pickups and SUVs myself when moving. Why buy a vehicle you
only need once every 2 years?
Steven Canyon
2005-04-02 17:32:38 UTC
Permalink
On 2 Apr 2005 08:55:06 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by Rocketman
Post by Rocketman
Another possibility, that could become a reality with the right
incentives,
Post by Rocketman
would be community-sponsored pools of hauling vehicles, specifically
for the
Post by Rocketman
purpose of providing temporary, convenient hauling capacity for those
who
Post by Rocketman
need it. Local rental companies where I live will rent you a pickup
for
Post by Rocketman
$30/day. And yes, they are open on weekends.
So many options for those who wish to do their patriotic duty to
their
Post by Rocketman
country.
R
Scrap the "community-sponsored pools of hauling vehicles" idea. That's
never gonna work. But the rental companies are another story. I've
rented large pickups and SUVs myself when moving. Why buy a vehicle you
only need once every 2 years?
Because I can?



--

Did Zepp Jamieson really think he was going to get away with posting
as "Greywolf the Wanderer" long ago?


The similarities are too many to be a coincidence.

Let's examine what "each" of them said

First, Greywolf was born in Scotland and then lived in B.C. Canada, as did Zepp.
Greywolf used to be a bbs sysop in Santa Barbara, as was Zepp.
Greywolf lives near Mt Shasta in California, so does Zepp.
Greywolf has a house full of cats and 3 dogs, as does Zepp
Greywolf complains of bad eyesight, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used to work at an airport, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work as a janitor, so did Zepp
Greywolf used to work at an hospital, so did Zepp
Greywolf has a samoyed named Monk, so does Zepp
Greywolf complains of "rhuematiz", as does Zepp
Greywolf says he is dyslexic, as does Zepp.
Greywolf used Zepp's ISP account and even used Zepp's computer
Greywolf claims to be a writer, as does Zepp
Greywolf says that he's a wiccan and Zepp does a lot of writing about wiccans.
Greywolf's favorite quote is "evolution in action," Zepp used that for one of his "commentaries."
Greywolf's an alcoholic who stopped drinking, Zepp says he's had problems with alcohol
so he quit drinking a long time ago.

Are Greywolf and Zepp the same person?

Now what about all those homosexual fantasy stories that he wrote about the startrek characters as "Greywolf?"

... and "Zepp/Greywolf" cheerfully described himself as "queer as a three dollar bill."
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by Matthew Russotto
Post by Rocketman
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90
hp, and has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows
cargo like a station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove
cars like my Honda, ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
You think you could put two nighttables and a queen sized bed
(disassembled) in your Civic VX? No? Then lets not hear about how it
can swallow cargo like a station wagon. How about several 55" x 40"
pieces of framed artwork? Didn't think so.
Here's a thought. Buy a truck and use it when you need it and otherwise
drive a regular car. I've got a 1970 f150 4x4 that gets about 10 MPG, but
I only use it when I need to haul something, or get somewhere that requires
four wheel drive. I'd be foolish to use that for anything else.
You are very free with OPM.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
z
2005-04-02 17:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Bill
Post by z
Here's a thought. Buy a truck and use it when you need it and
otherwise drive a regular car. I've got a 1970 f150 4x4 that gets
about 10 MPG, but I only use it when I need to haul something, or get
somewhere that requires four wheel drive. I'd be foolish to use that
for anything else.
You are very free with OPM.
?
Allen Seth Dunn
2005-04-02 17:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by Danny Wall
Post by Rocketman
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
Yeah, and so do civics, focus', and a whole bunch of other cars.
Yes, I know: My Honda Civic VX is EPA rated at 54mpg. It makes 90 hp,
and has no trouble cruising at 80 mph all day long. It swallows cargo
like a station wagon. Fantastic car. If every American drove cars like my
Honda, ANWR wouldn't be an issue.
Yeah, unfortunately, trying to say that one size car fits all people,
doesn't make it true. Many people probably could benefit from driving that
kind of vehicle that you have, but for a sizeable percentage of the
population, it wouldn't work.
Post by Rocketman
Post by Danny Wall
Post by Rocketman
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Americans learned a long time ago that time is money.
Ok. Drive fast, but drive energy efficient cars and carpool. Why not
offer tax breaks for energy efficiency, and for each person you haul with
you on your commute? Then suburbanites would be clamoring to get more
commuters crammed into their energy-efficient cars.
Interesting proposal. If such an idea can prove doable (meaning that there
could be shown solid proof in event of an IRS tax audit), I would propose
using Virginia as a test (because of the DC Area)
Post by Rocketman
Post by Danny Wall
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a
statement
Post by Rocketman
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
You have so many sweeping generalities here that it's laughable.
Your myopia is noted.
Post by Danny Wall
For starters, Iraq isn't a war for oil.
Yes it is.
Post by Danny Wall
If it was we'd have our troops
protecting the oil fields and pipelines, not the cities. We'd have
Haliburton out there ripping every drop of oil out of the Iraqi sand as fast
as they could. We don't have either of those situations and oil production
in Iraq is actually LOWER than it was under Saddam. Now unless you want to
suggest that americans companies don't know how to pump oil ...
It's not about immediately pumping oil by the tanker load for near-term
profits. Iraq, and the pending Iran and Syrian military takeovers, are
about establishing a permanent military dominance in the Middle East to
secure the largest remaining oil reserves for the United States, by far
the largest oil consumer in the world (per capita). The "war on terror"
and "spreading American values" are transparent and cynical ruses used to
gain needed popular support for anotherwise unsupportable imperial agenda.
Post by Danny Wall
Further, the purchase of crude oil doesn't cause or create terrorism.
Yes, it does. See above.
Post by Danny Wall
Therefore, driving an SUV has nothing to do with national security.
Oil production has already peaked. From this point on, the clock is
ticking. The more oil we use now, the sooner our nation (and all
oil-dependent nations) will meet their socioeconomic demise. "The
American Way of Life" has always been a temporary flash in the pan of
history; but now we know its days are numbered. There will no longer be
an "American Way of Life" in 30 years, probably much sooner.
Now are you beginning to see why conservation is every American's
patriotic duty?
Post by Danny Wall
We can
talk about global warming as a separate issue if you like, but driving an
SUV has nothing to do with terrorism.
Global warming isn't nearly as important, short term, as the impending
precipitous drop in oil supply, accelerated by the rapidly increasing
global oil demand (from emergent industrial superpowers such as China and
India). We have lots of competition for that oil. They want it as badly
as we do. You know what the market does when demand is high, and supply is
low, don't you?\
When gas is $5/gallon in a few years, think of this discussion.
R
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
2005-04-01 18:53:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:05:27 -0800, "Danny Wall"
Post by Danny Wall
You have so many sweeping generalities here that it's laughable. For
starters, Iraq isn't a war for oil. If it was we'd have our troops
protecting the oil fields and pipelines, not the cities. We'd have
Haliburton out there ripping every drop of oil out of the Iraqi sand as fast
as they could. We don't have either of those situations and oil production
in Iraq is actually LOWER than it was under Saddam.
Well of course it's lower, you idiot. Bush has effedup iraq. This war
was all about oi. Problem is bush has fought an inempt war and just
made things worse.
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:35:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:53:14 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:05:27 -0800, "Danny Wall"
Post by Danny Wall
You have so many sweeping generalities here that it's laughable. For
starters, Iraq isn't a war for oil. If it was we'd have our troops
protecting the oil fields and pipelines, not the cities. We'd have
Haliburton out there ripping every drop of oil out of the Iraqi sand as fast
as they could. We don't have either of those situations and oil production
in Iraq is actually LOWER than it was under Saddam.
Well of course it's lower, you idiot. Bush has effedup iraq. This war
was all about oi. Problem is bush has fought an inempt war and just
made things worse.
Right.
Just like freeing Kuwait was all about oil.
Where did all that oil we stole from Kuwait go, BTW?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a 300hp 283
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you punch the
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts about half
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power tosses your
head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
Apparently you saved 5 MPG over Laura by driving 10 MPH slower. This
proves the opposite of what I think you were trying to say. Just the
same you slow down commerce by slowing down the speed limit, this hurts
the economy. I don't want to return to the 10%+ mortgage rates of the
Carter years.
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
2005-04-01 18:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
Apparently you saved 5 MPG over Laura by driving 10 MPH slower. This
proves the opposite of what I think you were trying to say. Just the
same you slow down commerce by slowing down the speed limit, this hurts
the economy. I don't want to return to the 10%+ mortgage rates of the
Carter years.
HAHA. Now this loony says that gas guzzling is good for the
economy!!!! HAHAHA
Martin Holterman
2005-04-01 19:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's
need
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also
save
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like
it
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern
cars
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
Yes, it very well could. My old 1985 BMW 325e routinely turned in
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to
sip
Post by Rocketman
fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a
300hp 283
about
Post by Rocketman
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you
punch the
Post by Rocketman
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts
about half
Post by Rocketman
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power
tosses your
Post by Rocketman
head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would
greatly
Post by Rocketman
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of
all
Post by Rocketman
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20
years (at
Post by Rocketman
current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a
statement
Post by Rocketman
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
Apparently you saved 5 MPG over Laura by driving 10 MPH slower. This
proves the opposite of what I think you were trying to say. Just the
same you slow down commerce by slowing down the speed limit, this hurts
the economy. I don't want to return to the 10%+ mortgage rates of the
Carter years.
High mortgage rates are caused by high inflation, not by low economic
growth. On the contrary, actually, in bad times the interest rates are
usually lowered by the fed, making loans cheaper. In Japan they've been
having very low interest rates for over a decade.

Martin Holterman
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a 300hp 283
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you punch the
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts about half
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power tosses your
head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
In my teens I had a 55 Chevy Belair with a 365 dual four barrel 327
from a wreaked Corvete. Sold the dual quad setup to someone who dealt
with Corvette parts and bought a 750 CFM Holley that didn't work right.
The only thing wrong was the corrosion that caused the ball check on
the accelerator pump to plug up the accelerator pump. Put that back
together and promptly broke the rear end form all of the torque. It
does put out a couple or more ounces of fuel per squirt.

Got a stronger rear end and got mid 13's in a quarter mile. Eventually
the U bolts that hold the rear axle to the leaf springs broke, messing
up the rear body somewhat. Fixed that and eventually sold it.
Rocketman
2005-04-01 19:03:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rocketman
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's
need
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also
save
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like
it
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern
cars
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
Yes, it very well could. My old 1985 BMW 325e routinely turned in
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to
sip
Post by Rocketman
fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a
300hp 283
about
Post by Rocketman
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you
punch the
Post by Rocketman
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts
about half
Post by Rocketman
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power
tosses your
Post by Rocketman
head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would
greatly
Post by Rocketman
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of
all
Post by Rocketman
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20
years (at
Post by Rocketman
current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a
statement
Post by Rocketman
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
In my teens I had a 55 Chevy Belair with a 365 dual four barrel 327
from a wreaked Corvete. Sold the dual quad setup to someone who dealt
with Corvette parts and bought a 750 CFM Holley that didn't work right.
The only thing wrong was the corrosion that caused the ball check on
the accelerator pump to plug up the accelerator pump. Put that back
together and promptly broke the rear end form all of the torque. It
does put out a couple or more ounces of fuel per squirt.
You got that right. When my dad and I were installing the engine in my '57
Belair, I joked that we didn't need to buy fuel line - we could just cut off
a length of garden hose and run it to the gas tank :-) Those Chevy small
blocks can really make some torque when you dump a couple of shot glasses
worth of high octane down their throat. Damn, I miss that car sometimes.
Those dual glass packs and oversized pipes would make a helluva racket.
Post by Rocketman
Got a stronger rear end and got mid 13's in a quarter mile. Eventually
the U bolts that hold the rear axle to the leaf springs broke, messing
up the rear body somewhat. Fixed that and eventually sold it.
That's a decent E.T. for a stock '55. You may not believe this; but my dad
still drives the '55 Belair that he bought in 1957. If you can keep 'em
from rusting, they'll last forever.

R
Julian D.
2005-04-01 21:55:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:54:12 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a 300hp 283
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you punch the
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts about half
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power tosses your
head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
Conservation is regression. I'll not drive a lesser vehicle for the
express reason of saving gasoline. I'll not be inconvenienced.
Turning down our thermostats, having to wear sweaters in our home,
driving smaller vehicles to 'save fuel', is total regression. For
those who do so just to save some money, fine. To do so because
environmental whacko anti-oil nuts want you to is bullshit.
America will not regress.




JD
Nate Nagel
2005-04-01 22:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian D.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:54:12 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to sip
fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a 300hp 283
careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you punch the
accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly squirts about half
a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing explosion of power tosses your
head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years (at
current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not only
patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
Conservation is regression. I'll not drive a lesser vehicle for the
express reason of saving gasoline. I'll not be inconvenienced.
Turning down our thermostats, having to wear sweaters in our home,
driving smaller vehicles to 'save fuel', is total regression. For
those who do so just to save some money, fine. To do so because
environmental whacko anti-oil nuts want you to is bullshit.
America will not regress.
Whoever said that driving a smaller vehicle is regression? I drive a
Porsche 944 every day and not only is it economical (perhaps not in
comparison to a hybrid, but certainly compared to the vast majority of
vehicles - mostly trucks and SUVs - that I see every day) but it is a
reliable, well-engineered machine and a kick in the ass to drive. It
suits my needs perfectly as I rarely need to carry more than one
passenger or more cargo than will fit in the trunk and/or back seat.
Surely a more modern equivalent like a Miata or Boxter would be even
more fun and at the same time likely more economical.

I drove a BMW 535i for a year or so and felt guilty about it - it was a
wonderful car but there was so much cavernous space that I wasn't using
and yet I was paying for every time I filled up the tank.

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Rocketman
2005-04-02 18:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Nagel
Post by Julian D.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:54:12 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
Yes, it very well could. My old 1985 BMW 325e routinely turned in 35mpg
@ 65-70mph. Bimmers have great engines. The "e" engine was designed to
sip fuel.
FWIW, my old 1957 Chevy Belair, with a 4bbl Holley 750 cfm carb, a 300hp
about careful carb tuning and not driving like a maniac. Every time you
punch the accelerator hard on a 750cfm double-pumper, it instantly
squirts about half a cup of gas into the engine, and the ensuing
explosion of power tosses your head into the back seat :-)
If we all drove gas-sipping cars and drove 10mph slower, we would greatly
reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and prolong the existence of all
first world nations, which will collapse when oil runs out in 20 years
(at current projected demand).
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a
statement of your childish irresponsibility. Conserving gasoline is not
only patriotic, it directly benefits national security.
R
Conservation is regression. I'll not drive a lesser vehicle for the
express reason of saving gasoline. I'll not be inconvenienced.
Turning down our thermostats, having to wear sweaters in our home,
driving smaller vehicles to 'save fuel', is total regression. For
those who do so just to save some money, fine. To do so because
environmental whacko anti-oil nuts want you to is bullshit. America will
not regress.
Whoever said that driving a smaller vehicle is regression? I drive a
Porsche 944 every day
I've had some very fast rides (150mph+) in a 944. The car was rock-stable
at any speed. I almost bought one until I heard a few horror stories about
replacement parts cost. Ouch!
Post by Nate Nagel
and not only is it economical (perhaps not in comparison to a hybrid, but
certainly compared to the vast majority of vehicles - mostly trucks and
SUVs - that I see every day)
Germans don't like $1.25/liter gas any more than Americans will when it
arrives here in a couple of years.
Post by Nate Nagel
but it is a reliable, well-engineered machine and a kick in the ass to
drive.
Reliable? That's not what I heard. But 944's are absolutely a kick in the
pants to drive. There's nothing like German [over]engineering.
Post by Nate Nagel
It suits my needs perfectly as I rarely need to carry more than one
passenger or more cargo than will fit in the trunk and/or back seat.
Hard to imagine thinking of a 944 as a grocery getter; but they can serve
that purpose well. Have the furniture and lumber delivered for you. Works
for me.
Post by Nate Nagel
Surely a more modern equivalent like a Miata or Boxter would be even
more fun and at the same time likely more economical.
I test drove a Miata. Lots of fun; but anemic in the power department, and
not very fuel efficient for such low HP. Also, it was too snug for my large
frame. Could hardly get my big feet into the narrow footwell.

However, I love my BMW Z3. It gets 29mpg, has enough storage for weekend
luggage or groceries, and women LOVE it. I mean, hot women are in love with
my car. I kid you not. It's all about top-down cruising, baby. Nothing
else like it.
Post by Nate Nagel
I drove a BMW 535i for a year or so and felt guilty about it - it was a
wonderful car but there was so much cavernous space that I wasn't using
and yet I was paying for every time I filled up the tank.
That's perhaps not quite true. There are quite a few mid-sized cars out
there that are rated in the 30 mpg range (highway), with plenty of power
available. The key is efficient engine design and reduced weight
(especially for city driving, of course). Why aren't there any reasonably
affordable carbon/aluminum cars? It's not like the materials are exotic, is
it?

Of course, gigantic overpowerd engines in gigantic 6,000 lb SUV's will never
be energy efficient. It's pure physics: F = ma. Lighter cars with more
efficient engines win every time. Big gas-sucking engines lose.

The BMW 5-series with the smaller 6cyl engines get pretty decent mileage,
and are quite practical in many ways, especially the Touring models.
Personally, I think they're a bit pricey; but certainly some of the best in
their class and price range.

R
Martin Holterman
2005-04-02 18:34:31 UTC
Permalink
[cut]
Post by Rocketman
I've had some very fast rides (150mph+) in a 944. The car was rock-stable
at any speed. I almost bought one until I heard a few horror stories about
replacement parts cost. Ouch!
Post by Nate Nagel
and not only is it economical (perhaps not in comparison to a hybrid, but
certainly compared to the vast majority of vehicles - mostly trucks and
SUVs - that I see every day)
Germans don't like $1.25/liter gas any more than Americans will when it
arrives here in a couple of years.
Actually, think about the idea of a reserve price. People evaluate
prices by comparing them to the price they have in their heads. So if
you're used to petrol costing $ 1,25/litre (or more), you won't be so
unhappy about it anymore.

[cut]
Post by Rocketman
However, I love my BMW Z3. It gets 29mpg, has enough storage for weekend
luggage or groceries, and women LOVE it. I mean, hot women are in love with
my car. I kid you not. It's all about top-down cruising, baby. Nothing
else like it.
Personally, I prefer the Z4. It looks better and, more importantly, it
actually has an engine.

[cut]

Martin Holterman
Rocketman
2005-04-02 19:08:44 UTC
Permalink
[cut]
Post by Rocketman
I've had some very fast rides (150mph+) in a 944. The car was
rock-stable at any speed. I almost bought one until I heard a few horror
stories about replacement parts cost. Ouch!
Post by Nate Nagel
and not only is it economical (perhaps not in comparison to a hybrid, but
certainly compared to the vast majority of vehicles - mostly trucks and
SUVs - that I see every day)
Germans don't like $1.25/liter gas any more than Americans will when it
arrives here in a couple of years.
Actually, think about the idea of a reserve price. People evaluate prices
by comparing them to the price they have in their heads. So if you're used
to petrol costing $ 1,25/litre (or more), you won't be so unhappy about it
anymore.
The problem with Americans is that they've adapted their cities and their
lifestyles around the continued existence of cheap and plentiful gasoline.
They have become utterly car-dependent, and gasoline-dependent. There
simply are not sufficient infrastructures in place (in most cities) to
support any other lifestyle. When $6/gal gasoline hits the US, it will
likely play a disruptive role in our society. Consumer consumption will
drop, auto travel will virtually cease, SUV's will become extinct, people
will start moving back to the city, there will be a clamor for more and
better mass transit, people will demand safe bike lanes and bike trails for
commuters, etc. In other words, everything that "the liberals" have been
asking for over the past 3+ decades will suddenly seem like a very good
idea.

When all is said and done, $6/gal gasoline may actually be good for our
society; but for many, it will involve a painful awakening to our
self-serving out-of-balance priorities.
[cut]
Post by Rocketman
However, I love my BMW Z3. It gets 29mpg, has enough storage for weekend
luggage or groceries, and women LOVE it. I mean, hot women are in love
with my car. I kid you not. It's all about top-down cruising, baby.
Nothing else like it.
Personally, I prefer the Z4. It looks better and, more importantly, it
actually has an engine.
Yeah, from certain angles, the Z4's are stunning (not from the front
though). I looked at them; but the prices are sky-high compared to a used
Z3 (like 3x the money)

Z4's are not selling well at all. They are plagued with annoying (and
potentially dangerous) problems. The few Z4 owners I know have had their
cars in the shop numerous times. That shouldn't happen to a 2 year old BMW.

As for engines: Let's race a Z3M next to a Z4 3.0 and see what happens. I
didn't buy mine to race. I bought it to enjoy wind-in-my-hair top-down
driving. On that score, it succeeds perfectly.
[cut]
Martin Holterman
Magnulus
2005-04-02 19:22:19 UTC
Permalink
High fuel prices are going to cause a depression in the US... it would
take years to rearrainge our cities and suburbs to be less car dependent.
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:23:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:54:12 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility.
I'm sure you meant to write,
"Driving an SUV if you don't need such a vehicle isn't a statement of
your American freedom. It's a statement of your childish
irresponsibility."
Right?
Ootherwise, there are a lot of people you owe an apology to.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Rocketman
2005-04-02 18:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian D.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:54:12 GMT, "Rocketman"
Post by Rocketman
Driving an SUV isn't a statement of your American freedom. It's a statement
of your childish irresponsibility.
I'm sure you meant to write,
"Driving an SUV if you don't need such a vehicle isn't a statement of
your American freedom. It's a statement of your childish
irresponsibility."
Right?
Tell me, oh wise one: Who *needs* an SUV?

The very appeal of SUV's is that they are excessive. They are not chosen
because of their practicality. They are not cheap. They're not especially
safe (certainly not with respect to children and other vehicles). They are
not energy efficient. They don't cost less to produce than other vehicles.
They don't use fewer resources, or have longer useful lifespans than other
vehicles. They are not ideal hauling vehicles. They are not (in many cases)
even designed for actual off-road use. Their sole appeal is that they are
obesely oversized and obscenely excessive, like their drivers.
Post by Julian D.
Ootherwise, there are a lot of people you owe an apology to.
Have them write to me personally, explaining in detail why they *need* an
SUV, instead of a modest pickup, or a sedan or hatchback, or no car at all.
That will provide me with a great deal of amusement.

Americans have been taught to believe that anything they *want* is actually
something that they *need.*

R
Big Bill
2005-04-01 16:51:26 UTC
Permalink
On 31 Mar 2005 22:38:47 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55?
It doesn't. URALIAR
What happened to <PLONK>?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 13:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before bush
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it did
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars get 18
going 55? Screw 55 .. make better engines
If your bimmer gets 30 MPG at 80 then it will get 30+ at 55. Had a car
that broke 4th gear once and could not go faster than about 45 or so,
thought the gas mileage would be worse going in third gear, but it
actually got much better milleage.

Just the same I don't see any need to restrict our speed limits, that
would hurt our economy worse than the fuel costs. Time is money you
know.
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 16:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
If your bimmer gets 30 MPG at 80 then it will get 30+ at 55. Had a car
that broke 4th gear once and could not go faster than about 45 or so,
thought the gas mileage would be worse going in third gear, but it
actually got much better milleage.
Just the same I don't see any need to restrict our speed limits, that
would hurt our economy worse than the fuel costs. Time is money you
know.
How would it hurt the economy? It would save billions of $ every month
in medical bills and property damage.
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by Sport Pilot
If your bimmer gets 30 MPG at 80 then it will get 30+ at 55. Had a
car
Post by Sport Pilot
that broke 4th gear once and could not go faster than about 45 or so,
thought the gas mileage would be worse going in third gear, but it
actually got much better milleage.
Just the same I don't see any need to restrict our speed limits, that
would hurt our economy worse than the fuel costs. Time is money you
know.
How would it hurt the economy? It would save billions of $ every month
in medical bills and property damage.
The 55 MPH rule was one of the reasons the economy went south during
Carters presidency. People didn't take trips because it took too long.
More people late to work. More accidents due to inattention, maybe
less fatalities, but more fenderbenders. More people paying fines for
traffic tickets. The economy made an almost immediate jump when the
law was recended.
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 22:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
The 55 MPH rule was one of the reasons the economy went south during
Carters presidency. People didn't take trips because it took too long.
More people late to work. More accidents due to inattention, maybe
less fatalities, but more fenderbenders. More people paying fines for
traffic tickets. The economy made an almost immediate jump when the
law was recended.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Listen to this lying nutball. The economy turned
around in 1982, 8 years after the 55 was implemented, you moron.
HAHAHA
Sport Pilot
2005-04-02 01:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by Sport Pilot
The 55 MPH rule was one of the reasons the economy went south during
Carters presidency. People didn't take trips because it took too
long.
Post by Sport Pilot
More people late to work. More accidents due to inattention, maybe
less fatalities, but more fenderbenders. More people paying fines
for
Post by Sport Pilot
traffic tickets. The economy made an almost immediate jump when the
law was recended.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Listen to this lying nutball. The economy turned
around in 1982, 8 years after the 55 was implemented, you moron.
HAHAHA
The economy didn't turn around immediately in 82, it took a couple of
years to get legs. I didn't say the 55 speed limit was the only reason
for the economy to go south. It was the early 80s almost immediately
after Reagan got into office that some states upped the speed limit on
there four lane roads and expressways. Often you could go faster on a
state highway than the interstate.
Magnulus
2005-04-02 02:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Listen to this lying nutball. The economy turned
around in 1982, 8 years after the 55 was implemented, you moron.
HAHAHA
Carter did not create the 55 mph speed limit either. Nixon did.

It's amazing how stuff turns into myths.
Big Bill
2005-04-01 16:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55? Screw 55 .. make better engines
If your bimmer gets 30 MPG at 80 then it will get 30+ at 55.
That's a very broad statement, and like most such, it's only partly
true.
If 55mph puts you at an inefficient RPM, the mileage will suffer.
Post by z
Had a car
that broke 4th gear once and could not go faster than about 45 or so,
thought the gas mileage would be worse going in third gear, but it
actually got much better milleage.
Why is your anecdotal evidence more true than his?
And you completely ignore RPM.
Post by z
Just the same I don't see any need to restrict our speed limits, that
would hurt our economy worse than the fuel costs. Time is money you
know.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 18:11:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Bill
Post by z
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before
bush
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it
did
Post by z
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Why does my 30 year old bimmer get 30 MPG going 80 when modern cars
get 18
Post by z
going 55? Screw 55 .. make better engines
If your bimmer gets 30 MPG at 80 then it will get 30+ at 55.
That's a very broad statement, and like most such, it's only partly
true.
If 55mph puts you at an inefficient RPM, the mileage will suffer.
Post by z
Had a car
that broke 4th gear once and could not go faster than about 45 or so,
thought the gas mileage would be worse going in third gear, but it
actually got much better milleage.
Why is your anecdotal evidence more true than his?
And you completely ignore RPM.
Post by z
Just the same I don't see any need to restrict our speed limits, that
would hurt our economy worse than the fuel costs. Time is money you
know.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
More speed is more drag is more power is more fuel. More RPM is more
friction and that is more fuel also. I am a mechanical engineer who
has run tests and I know of no engine that burns less fuel at a higher
load and higher RPM. True there are curves that give an engine a
higher peak and possibly slightly higher efficiency, in that less fuel
per HP is burned, but at a lower speed the engine will need less HP and
less fuel.

In fact if he is driving one of those BMW sports cars he IS getting
less than its optimum, it would be well over 30 if kept under 70 MPH.
Brent P
2005-04-01 18:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
More speed is more drag is more power is more fuel. More RPM is more
friction and that is more fuel also. I am a mechanical engineer who
has run tests and I know of no engine that burns less fuel at a higher
load and higher RPM. True there are curves that give an engine a
higher peak and possibly slightly higher efficiency, in that less fuel
per HP is burned, but at a lower speed the engine will need less HP and
less fuel.
Since we are tossing qualifications around I'm a mechanical engineer with a
masters in it. The problem with your assumptions is that higher speed
does not always mean higher load.

Gearing, tires, etc all make a difference too. All the load curves from
all sources have to be added together. For some cars the sweet spot may
be 55mph, for other cars it might be 70mph. Going slower doesn't always
make for greater fuel economy. Throw in traffic and it gets even more
complex. (for instance, a constant 75mph will likely yield better fuel
economy than a fairly congested roadway that oscillates between 20 and
55mph)

The various complexities is the reason why emissions test, fuel economy
tests, etc involve a variety of speeds, acceleration rates, etc. It's
just the same test for each car so people can compare vehicles fairly.
If we could say things like 'slower = better fuel economy' we could run
the tests at one constant speed.
Sport Pilot
2005-04-01 20:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brent P
Post by Sport Pilot
More speed is more drag is more power is more fuel. More RPM is more
friction and that is more fuel also. I am a mechanical engineer who
has run tests and I know of no engine that burns less fuel at a higher
load and higher RPM. True there are curves that give an engine a
higher peak and possibly slightly higher efficiency, in that less fuel
per HP is burned, but at a lower speed the engine will need less HP and
less fuel.
Since we are tossing qualifications around I'm a mechanical engineer with a
masters in it. The problem with your assumptions is that higher speed
does not always mean higher load.
Having plotted wind tunnel curves for some fairly slippery cars, I can
tell you that the load goes up with the square of the speed and at
interstate speeds is about 70 to 80% of the load.
Post by Brent P
Gearing, tires, etc all make a difference too.
Yeah, but not as much as you apparently think.

All the load curves from
Post by Brent P
all sources have to be added together. For some cars the sweet spot may
be 55mph, for other cars it might be 70mph.
For most car's its in the 30's or 40's. Especially with draggy SUV's
with effecient bearings and tires.

Going slower doesn't always
Post by Brent P
make for greater fuel economy. Throw in traffic and it gets even more
complex. (for instance, a constant 75mph will likely yield better fuel
economy than a fairly congested roadway that oscillates between 20 and
55mph)
You are changing the subject, we are talking about steady state
interstate driving with little or no acceleration and deceleration.
Post by Brent P
The various complexities is the reason why emissions test, fuel economy
tests, etc involve a variety of speeds, acceleration rates, etc. It's
just the same test for each car so people can compare vehicles
fairly.
Post by Brent P
If we could say things like 'slower = better fuel economy' we could run
the tests at one constant speed.
This doesn't make sense, cars must go at differant speeds, they have
different weights and power, of course a variable speed run will have
differant effects.
Brent P
2005-04-01 20:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
Post by Brent P
Post by Sport Pilot
More speed is more drag is more power is more fuel. More RPM is more
friction and that is more fuel also. I am a mechanical engineer who
has run tests and I know of no engine that burns less fuel at a higher
load and higher RPM. True there are curves that give an engine a
higher peak and possibly slightly higher efficiency, in that less fuel
per HP is burned, but at a lower speed the engine will need less HP and
less fuel.
Since we are tossing qualifications around I'm a mechanical engineer with a
masters in it. The problem with your assumptions is that higher speed
does not always mean higher load.
Having plotted wind tunnel curves for some fairly slippery cars, I can
tell you that the load goes up with the square of the speed and at
interstate speeds is about 70 to 80% of the load.
TOTAL LOAD. aerodynamic load is only one load on the engine.
Post by Sport Pilot
Post by Brent P
Gearing, tires, etc all make a difference too.
Yeah, but not as much as you apparently think.
Oh, yes, as much as I think. I have owned two ford mavericks. A '75 and
currently a '73. With 200 and 250 cid inline 6s. The '75 was crippled
with an airpump and primative catalyst it also had a 2.79 rear end vs.
3.0? on the '73. Both with manual 3spds. The '75 was also the heavier of
the two with a larger fuel tank, beefier bumpers, and larger rear frame
rails. The '75 got considerably better fuel economy than the '73.
Post by Sport Pilot
Post by Brent P
All the load curves from
all sources have to be added together. For some cars the sweet spot may
be 55mph, for other cars it might be 70mph.
For most car's its in the 30's or 40's. Especially with draggy SUV's
with effecient bearings and tires.
For anything resembling a 1970s car sure...
Post by Sport Pilot
Post by Brent P
Going slower doesn't always
make for greater fuel economy. Throw in traffic and it gets even more
complex. (for instance, a constant 75mph will likely yield better fuel
economy than a fairly congested roadway that oscillates between 20 and
55mph)
You are changing the subject, we are talking about steady state
interstate driving with little or no acceleration and deceleration.
No I'm not. the subject is FUEL ECONOMY in the REAL WORLDm because we are
dealing with -regulation- for the purpose of decreasing fuel consumption.
There is no such thing as study-state interstate driving for the vast
majority of us. The last time I had anything close to it was the last
half of the last drive I made at 2:30 am. (the first half was dominated
by stop and go traffic jams, yes at 2 am on a sunday-monday)
Post by Sport Pilot
Post by Brent P
The various complexities is the reason why emissions test, fuel economy
tests, etc involve a variety of speeds, acceleration rates, etc. It's
just the same test for each car so people can compare vehicles fairly.
If we could say things like 'slower = better fuel economy' we could run
the tests at one constant speed.
This doesn't make sense, cars must go at differant speeds, they have
different weights and power, of course a variable speed run will have
differant effects.
It makes perfect sense if you are trying to simulate real world
conditions. See IM240 test. Here:
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/im240.html
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sport Pilot
More speed is more drag is more power is more fuel. More RPM is more
friction and that is more fuel also. I am a mechanical engineer who
has run tests and I know of no engine that burns less fuel at a higher
load and higher RPM. True there are curves that give an engine a
higher peak and possibly slightly higher efficiency, in that less fuel
per HP is burned, but at a lower speed the engine will need less HP and
less fuel.
Your education is lacking in the area of practical application.
Air resistance, if negligible at a certain speed (for example, 50 mph)
will indeed increase squared as the speed doubles. But from 50 to 100
mph isn't going to get you the increase a lot of people think it does,
because at 50 it's so low to begin with.
50 to 75 isn't nearly as much as 50 to 100.
And, yes, believe it or not, many vehicles get better mileage at
speeds greater than 50 mph.
Post by Sport Pilot
In fact if he is driving one of those BMW sports cars he IS getting
less than its optimum, it would be well over 30 if kept under 70 MPH.
Experience tops book learning every time.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
dr.benway
2005-04-01 06:30:01 UTC
Permalink
"I can't drive 55!" Get a more fuel efficiebt car!
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 07:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by dr.benway
"I can't drive 55!" Get a more fuel efficiebt car!
What about all the thousands of lives we would save every year with
lower speeds?
Salad
2005-04-01 12:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by dr.benway
"I can't drive 55!" Get a more fuel efficiebt car!
What about all the thousands of lives we would save every year with
lower speeds?
I'm sure your foot would go down on the pedal if you were driving
through Nevada between Salt Lake City and Reno or between Palm Springs,
CA and Oklahoma. AZ is a pretty state but I sure like that 75 mph!
L Sternn
2005-04-01 14:23:00 UTC
Permalink
On 31 Mar 2005 23:03:09 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by dr.benway
"I can't drive 55!" Get a more fuel efficiebt car!
What about all the thousands of lives we would save every year with
lower speeds?
There's a decent chance one of those lives would be yours.

Let's keep driving 75 until LBMHB snuffs it - then we can slow down.
Alex Rodriguez
2005-04-01 18:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
What about all the thousands of lives we would save every year with
lower speeds?
There is no proof to back up your assertion.
------------
Alex
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 22:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Rodriguez
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
What about all the thousands of lives we would save every year with
lower speeds?
There is no proof to back up your assertion.
------------
Alex
It happened in 74 when we went to the 55. A 2% drop in miles driven and
a 16% drop in highway fatalities. Case closed.
Nate Nagel
2005-04-01 22:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by Alex Rodriguez
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
What about all the thousands of lives we would save every year with
lower speeds?
There is no proof to back up your assertion.
------------
Alex
It happened in 74 when we went to the 55. A 2% drop in miles driven and
a 16% drop in highway fatalities. Case closed.
*sigh*

not that old chestnut again... fatalities have been dropping at a
steady rate per VMT ever since the statistics were first gathered. Add
to that that they changed the way the statistics were recorded just
about the same time the NMSL was implemented and you see that your
figures mean exactly squat. Of course this has been pointed out to you
many times before, but you are apparently too stupid to interpret simple
English correctly.

Fatalities continue to drop, even as states increase their speed limits.
So what do you say to that, loonball?

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
dr.benway
2005-04-02 18:22:30 UTC
Permalink
How? Why not walk, Luddite! Do you drive or ride or are you just a
contentious sidewalk commando?
e***@netpath.net
2005-04-01 07:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can >all reduce america's need
for oil

Couldn't a ZERO mph speed limit reduce it even more? Or maybe a 45
mph speed limit?
You liberals only want reduced living standards in the U.S. - in
every way - as the solution to every problem, real or imagined. I
remember when Jimmy Carter was president - and schools were chilly "to
save energy" due to Washington-mandated thermostat settings. Still
wonder why you lose elections?

See all our stuff at the http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW
Paul
2005-04-01 13:39:28 UTC
Permalink
On 31 Mar 2005 23:03:36 -0800, ***@netpath.net , one of an infinite
number of monkeys at an infinite number of typewriters said the following
in rec.autos.driving...
Post by e***@netpath.net
Couldn't a ZERO mph speed limit reduce it even more? Or maybe a 45
mph speed limit?
Logic won't work on a MORON like Judy. HTH. :)
Magnulus
2005-04-01 14:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
You liberals only want reduced living standards in the U.S. - in
every way - as the solution to every problem, real or imagined. I
remember when Jimmy Carter was president - and schools were chilly "to
save energy" due to Washington-mandated thermostat settings. Still
wonder why you lose elections?
It couldn't have been Jimmy Carter proposing a sane response to
historically high oil prices?

BTW, STOP BLAMING CARTER. Richard Nixon signed the 55 mph national speed
limit into law.
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 16:06:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can >all reduce america's need
for oil
Couldn't a ZERO mph speed limit reduce it even more? Or maybe a 45
mph speed limit?
I can ask you the same thing, you illogical loony. What's so perfect
about 75 mph? THINK
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:13:01 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Apr 2005 08:06:29 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can >all reduce america's need
for oil
Couldn't a ZERO mph speed limit reduce it even more? Or maybe a
45
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
mph speed limit?
I can ask you the same thing, you illogical loony. What's so perfect
about 75 mph? THINK
For one thing, it's 20 more miles covered in an hour, wth a negligible
increase in the crash rate.
In a 6 hour driving day, that's 120 miles.
Can you think about what that means?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Paul
2005-04-01 13:52:45 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:04:38 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE ,
the retarded one of an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number
of fucked up typewriters said the following in rec.autos.driving...


< judy's crap sent to a hazardous waste facility >

I was wondering when this asshole was going to nym shift....

You want to save gas, then take that beater of yours and shove it up your
ass and get the fuck off the road, you shit for brains hypocrite!

Oh, yeah, before I forget, Ted Kennedy - DUI MANSLAUGHTER by a sitting
lawmaker!

--
"> Have you ever driven a car faster than the legal speed limit?

Yes, but never deliberately. In fact i got a speeding ticket about 5
years ago for doing 41 in a 25. I just about kicked the cops teeth in
cause i was sure he was lying. No way the SL on this wide open
stretch could be 25, i thought."

Pride of America (c.k.a. "Laura Bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE), 10/3/2002
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>
http://tinyurl.com/5u4wg
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-04-01 16:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Oh, yeah, before I forget, Ted Kennedy - DUI MANSLAUGHTER by a
sitting
Post by Paul
lawmaker!
Have any witnesses for that - we do with laura bush. HAHA
X***@spamgourmet.com
2005-04-02 01:04:40 UTC
Permalink
If you had witnesses, retard, Laura Welch would have been charge. Case
closed, loser.
Big Bill
2005-04-02 17:13:40 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Apr 2005 08:08:14 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
Post by Paul
Post by Paul
Oh, yeah, before I forget, Ted Kennedy - DUI MANSLAUGHTER by a
sitting
Post by Paul
lawmaker!
Have any witnesses for that - we do with laura bush. HAHA
Maybe the fact that he confessed to it?
Ya think that'll do it?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Alex Rodriguez
2005-04-01 18:39:48 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before bush
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it did
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
You have good intentions, too bad you are too stupid to figure out your
solution is not going to work. Dumbing down the speed limit is not the
proper way to solve the problem.
---------------
Alex
X***@spamgourmet.com
2005-04-01 22:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
Improving our gas mileage is a way we can all reduce america's need
for oil and thus end this war and bring our soldiers home before bush
kills and maims thousands more. And, of course, it will also save
thousands of civilian lives every year on our own highways like it did
in the 70s. Only a troop-hating psychopath would oppose this.
Great April Fool's joke, fool!

If we *walk* everywhere we go, we'll eliminat all traffic-related
fatalities.

Did your mother have any kids that lived?
Paul
2005-04-01 23:40:16 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Apr 2005 14:58:54 -0800, , one of an infinite number of monkeys at
an infinite number of typewriters said the following in
rec.autos.driving...


< judy's crap sent to a hazardous waste facility >
Post by X***@spamgourmet.com
Great April Fool's joke, fool!
Ever notice that judy's nyms are getting less and less creative?
Damn, it must suck to be judy.
Post by X***@spamgourmet.com
If we *walk* everywhere we go, we'll eliminat all traffic-related
fatalities.
You're blinding it with logic.
Post by X***@spamgourmet.com
Did your mother have any kids that lived?
Apparently atleast one, unfortunately for us....
X***@spamgourmet.com
2005-04-02 03:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Crud, Google's not wanting to quote properly <sigh>

You're right; it must suck to be Judy. Strange that it took *so* long
for such a minor nym shift on it's part.

I think it's been blinded by something long ago; given it's bais
against "drug crimes", I'm assuming it must be a heroin/cocaine
mixture.

As for Judy's mother having any kids that lived, I don't think Judy's
state could be considered "living." Oh wait, perhaps Judy's just far
enough out of a vegetative state to type. But not too far. :-)
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