Discussion:
Ending Supply Chain Shortages By Ending Trump Tariffs
(too old to reply)
Lee
2021-10-04 16:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021


Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.

Trump put tariffs on roughly $350
billion of Chinese-made goods --
and despite the change in
administrations, those duties
remain in place. American importers
have paid more than $106 billion
to cover the cost of those levies
to date, and many of them are now
facing skyrocketing shipping costs.
While the Biden administration has
been conducting a comprehensive
review of the US-China trade policy,
it has said little about restarting
trade talks or lifting punitive
duties.

Now the pressure on the Biden
administration to address the
issue is ramping up, as supply
chain problems are getting worse -
- resulting in shortages and
higher prices for everything from
sneakers to furniture to cars.
"Tariff relief is a fast and easy
way to help companies hurt most
by the shipping crisis stay in
business and keep people employed,"
said Steve Lamar, president and CEO
of the American Association of
Apparel and Footwear.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/03/politics/global-supply-chain-collapse
-biden-tariffs/index.html
NoBody
2021-10-09 14:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work. How *exactly* does the tarrifs effect
the fact that we have imports piling up that we can't process?
Klaus Schadenfreude
2021-10-09 16:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-ships-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chain-halt/

Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in ships is a
shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more time at home.

“Consumers have shifted their spending from services to goods during the
pandemic, and supply chains are struggling to keep pace,” said Jeffrey
Michael, executive director of the Center for Business and Policy Research at
University of the Pacific. “The ports in Southern California are actually
moving record levels of containers, but they haven’t been able to keep up
with increased demand.


Kremlin Girl / Bit of Nothingness lied. The ships are not backed up because of
no labor to unload and move the containers. The ships are backed up because a
higher number of ships is arriving then was the case before the pandemic.

When KG/BoN posts, it is always with lies.
Post by NoBody
How *exactly* does the tarrifs [sic]
*tariffs*
Post by NoBody
effect [sic]
*affect*
Post by NoBody
the fact that we have imports piling up that we can't process?
The imports are being processed.
NoBody
2021-10-10 13:50:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-ships-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chain-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in ships is a
shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more time at home.
Another left winger lie.

One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/07/business/one-reason-supply-shortages-no-one-drive-trucks/

"“There are multiple cargo ships off of Long Beach, California, and
L.A. that are waiting to be unloaded so they’re still sitting out
there in the ocean,” said Mike Pohanka, a business and economics
professor.

One of the main contributing factors behind the backlog is the lack of
truck drivers to unload the ships."

https://www.kmvt.com/2021/10/08/truck-driver-shortage-could-keep-prices-high-shoppers/
Klaus Schadenfreude
2021-10-10 15:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-ships-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chain-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in ships is a
shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more time at home.
Another left winger lie.
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Another right-wingnut lie. Ships are being unloaded and containers hauled away
on trains and trucks 24 hours a day. The problem is *more* ships, not too few
truck drivers.
NoBody
2021-10-14 10:43:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 08:37:17 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-ships-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chain-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in ships is a
shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more time at home.
Another left winger lie.
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Another right-wingnut lie. Ships are being unloaded and containers hauled away
on trains and trucks 24 hours a day. The problem is *more* ships, not too few
truck drivers.
Such a "lie" that you had to delete the proof of what I said:

"One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/07/business/one-reason-supply-shortages-no-one-drive-trucks/

"“There are multiple cargo ships off of Long Beach, California, and
L.A. that are waiting to be unloaded so they’re still sitting out
there in the ocean,” said Mike Pohanka, a business and economics
professor.

One of the main contributing factors behind the backlog is the lack of
truck drivers to unload the ships."

https://www.kmvt.com/2021/10/08/truck-driver-shortage-could-keep-prices-high-shoppers/"
Klaus Schadenfreude
2021-10-14 14:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 08:37:17 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-ships-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chain-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in ships is a
shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more time at home.
Another left winger lie.
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Another right-wingnut lie. Ships are being unloaded and containers hauled away
on trains and trucks 24 hours a day. The problem is *more* ships, not too few
truck drivers.
"One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Repeating your lie won't make it come true.
NoBody
2021-10-15 10:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 08:37:17 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-ships-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chain-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in ships is a
shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more time at home.
Another left winger lie.
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Another right-wingnut lie. Ships are being unloaded and containers hauled away
on trains and trucks 24 hours a day. The problem is *more* ships, not too few
truck drivers.
"One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/07/business/one-reason-supply-shortages-no-one-drive-trucks/
"“There are multiple cargo ships off of Long Beach, California, and
L.A. that are waiting to be unloaded so they’re still sitting out
there in the ocean,” said Mike Pohanka, a business and economics
professor.
One of the main contributing factors behind the backlog is the lack of
truck drivers to unload the ships."
https://www.kmvt.com/2021/10/08/truck-driver-shortage-could-keep-prices-high-shoppers/"
<crickets.wav>
Lee
2021-10-11 14:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
wrote: >>
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-shi
ps-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chai
n-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in
ships is a shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more
time at home.
Another left winger lie.
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.

https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/


What do you propose be done about that?
Post by NoBody
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/07/business/one-reason-supply-shor
tages-no-one-drive-trucks/
"“There are multiple cargo ships off of Long Beach, California, and
L.A. that are waiting to be unloaded so they’re still sitting out
there in the ocean,” said Mike Pohanka, a business and economics
professor.
One of the main contributing factors behind the backlog is the lack of
truck drivers to unload the ships."
https://www.kmvt.com/2021/10/08/truck-driver-shortage-could-keep-price
s-high-shoppers/
--
Siri Cruise
2021-10-12 00:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
Lee
2021-10-12 15:35:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yak
2021-10-12 15:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
So it's better to receive no wages as opposed to low wages....
Siri Cruise
2021-10-12 17:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yak
So it's better to receive no wages as opposed to low wages....
So you really are completely ignorant of the labour union history.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
Mitchell Holman
2021-10-12 17:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Yak
So it's better to receive no wages as opposed to low wages....
So you really are completely ignorant of the labour union history.
Yak is ignorant of all history. The article
said nothing about "no wages", it said truck
drives are leaving the field to make more
money in other jobs.
Yak
2021-10-12 18:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitchell Holman
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Yak
So it's better to receive no wages as opposed to low wages....
So you really are completely ignorant of the labour union history.
Yak is ignorant of all history. The article
said nothing about "no wages", it said truck
drives are leaving the field to make more
money in other jobs.
Hmmm, so then there isn't a low wage problem like Biden said.
NoBody
2021-10-14 10:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to go to
work and it's *still* not enough to you lefties.
NoBody
2021-10-15 10:59:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to go to
work and it's *still* not enough to you lefties.
And Lying Lee has fled.
Lee
2021-10-15 15:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to go to
work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
NoBody
2021-10-16 13:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to go to
work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match. So we're back to
start, except for the people in the middle class who didn't get those
articial increases. Your theory of "lving wage" has already been
proven not to work, Lying Lee.
NoBody
2021-10-17 13:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to go to
work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match. So we're back to
start, except for the people in the middle class who didn't get those
articial increases. Your theory of "lving wage" has already been
proven not to work, Lying Lee.
And Lying Lee has fled.
NoBody
2021-10-19 10:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the
trucks. >> >> >
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
What do you propose be done about that?
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
go to >> work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Post by Lee
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match. So we're back to
start, except for the people in the middle class who didn't get those
articial increases. Your theory of "lving wage" has already been
proven not to work, Lying Lee.
What was it you were saying about
the "problem" of migrant workers -just
raise the pay enough for Americans to
take those jobs?
Oh look, you moved the goal post and ran away. Please post where I
said what you claimed *IN CONTEXT*.
-hh
2021-10-19 12:31:53 UTC
Permalink
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive
the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
<https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/>
What do you propose be done about that?
FWIW, anyone who's been contemplating becoming a truck driver
has been reading headlines for the past ~7 years about how that
profession is going to be killed by self-driving technology. As such,
just why would one be motivated to enter that career field?
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match.
For just which worker segment is this true? Anyone below the 1%?
Because it certainly isn't the case for the bottom quintile who are
earning minimum wage...case in point:

<https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/>
So we're back to
start, except for the people in the middle class who didn't get those
articial increases.
(I assume "articial" is a typo for artificial).

The problem with that statement is that middle class didn't have artificial
increases that forced them to maintain pace with inflation/etc. For example,
in looking at the average pay where I work, it becomes quite clear that the
wage increases have been less than inflation over the past decade.

For example, I looked up the pay levels from my old 2011 job (this eliminates
any "promotion" factor to obscure the basic trends) and I found that after
inflation, today's 2021 pay is just 92% of its 2011 pay...an 8% decline.

Lesson here is that shortfalls of -1% don't individually seem like a lot, but
over time, they compound & snowball.

Case in point, doing the math: each year's pay gap, added up: the shortfall
comes out to be nearly 3/4's of a full year's pay (73.7%) without any interest
crediting.


-hh
NoBody
2021-10-20 10:39:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 05:31:53 -0700 (PDT), -hh
Post by -hh
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive
the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
<https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/>
What do you propose be done about that?
FWIW, anyone who's been contemplating becoming a truck driver
has been reading headlines for the past ~7 years about how that
profession is going to be killed by self-driving technology. As such,
just why would one be motivated to enter that career field?
There is no vehicle right now that is even *close* to being
self-driving. The best we have is cars that work "most" of the time.
Nothing like a big rig being safe "most" of the time....
Post by -hh
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match.
For just which worker segment is this true? Anyone below the 1%?
Because it certainly isn't the case for the bottom quintile who are
<https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/>
I don't deal in "what if's". Your article is a distraction from the
topic. Start here:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/best-states/minimum-wage-by-state

Just for "minimum wage" 24 states increased actual wages. Of course
this caused inflation which negated that increase which again proves
my point. There are no government numbers available yet for 2021 but
when they are published, you'll likely see quite the difference.
Post by -hh
So we're back to
start, except for the people in the middle class who didn't get those
articial increases.
(I assume "articial" is a typo for artificial).
The problem with that statement is that middle class didn't have artificial
increases that forced them to maintain pace with inflation/etc. For example,
in looking at the average pay where I work, it becomes quite clear that the
wage increases have been less than inflation over the past decade.
For example, I looked up the pay levels from my old 2011 job (this eliminates
any "promotion" factor to obscure the basic trends) and I found that after
inflation, today's 2021 pay is just 92% of its 2011 pay...an 8% decline.
Once again you've proved my point.
-hh
2021-10-20 12:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive
the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
<https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/>
What do you propose be done about that?
FWIW, anyone who's been contemplating becoming a truck driver
has been reading headlines for the past ~7 years about how that
profession is going to be killed by self-driving technology. As such,
just why would one be motivated to enter that career field?
There is no vehicle right now that is even *close* to being
self-driving. The best we have is cars that work "most" of the time.
Nothing like a big rig being safe "most" of the time....
It doesn't matter that the technology isn't there yet, because its the news
of "its coming soon", with those articles noting that the tech is going to
invariably wipe out those jobs. That reporting affects the number of
potential new hire prospects: instead of paying for the specialty training,
to enter the field, some portion of them simply look elsewhere, throwing
the hire-retire ratio out of balance.
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match.
For just which worker segment is this true? Anyone below the 1%?
Because it certainly isn't the case for the bottom quintile who are
<https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/>
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/best-states/minimum-wage-by-state
I grabbed the wrong chart on the lookup, but the disparity between Wage
gains & Productivity gains is at the very core of the 40 years of erosion of
the Middle Class, which is particularly acute for the lower quintiles.

But to make just the absolutely direct comparison that you want, here's
another link:

<https://www.epi.org/publication/labor-day-2019-minimum-wage/>

Now the headline on the above is:
"The federal minimum wage is worth 17% less than it was 10 years ago"

...as it is illustrating the same trend where the MW lags behind inflation.
It just isn't as large as the lag behind productivity gains.

FYI, here's some more links to illustrate another factor in all of this,
which is that the numbers can be pretty easily manipulated, such as
by cherrypicking one's timescale for the start point. Here's two such
examples:

<https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/04/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/>
<https://m.usw.org/blog/2018/the-u-s-economy-can-afford-a-15-minimum-wage>

YMMV on what is the more appropriate choice, since there's really many
factors to consider in this, such as how many MW "entry level" jobs today
may not be as physically laborious, but require more skills/educations than
what a guy leaning on a coal shovel in 1938 needed to do his job.
Post by NoBody
Just for "minimum wage" 24 states increased actual wages.
So? There's been new laws just passed in some States, but the same
basic question remains: "...did the law actually keep up with inflation?"

And again, timescales are important, particularly for those States who
don't pass MW law increases every year.
Post by NoBody
Of course this caused inflation which negated that increase which again
proves my point. There are no government numbers available yet for 2021
but when they are published, you'll likely see quite the difference.
Social Security has already run their 2021 inflation calculation, as they're
on a different (offset) schedule; their 2022 COLA is +5.8%. Granted, the
CPI value's invariably going to be different (its currently +4.8%), but either
one is good enough for this conversation, and to identify just which States
have already passed (or even proposed) a MW increase of around +5% for
2022 to maintain pace with inflation?
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
So we're back to
start, except for the people in the middle class who didn't get those
articial increases.
(I assume "articial" is a typo for artificial).
The problem with that statement is that middle class didn't have artificial
increases that forced them to maintain pace with inflation/etc. For example,
in looking at the average pay where I work, it becomes quite clear that the
wage increases have been less than inflation over the past decade.
For example, I looked up the pay levels from my old 2011 job (this eliminates
any "promotion" factor to obscure the basic trends) and I found that after
inflation, today's 2021 pay is just 92% of its 2011 pay...an 8% decline.
Once again you've proved my point.
That showed that the Middle Class is *also* getting hosed, so then I have
to ask just what your point was here.

...because what you seem to be saying is that you consider it to be unfair
that Minimum Wage earners are getting screwed over slightly less than
the amount that the Middle Class earners are getting screwed over.

Well, if you don't like it that someone below you economically is getting
a little more fiscal protection than you are, then the solution is to quit
your mediocre-paying middle class job & go get a minimum wage job.


-hh
NoBody
2021-10-22 10:36:36 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 05:03:08 -0700 (PDT), -hh
Post by -hh
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive
the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
<https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/>
What do you propose be done about that?
FWIW, anyone who's been contemplating becoming a truck driver
has been reading headlines for the past ~7 years about how that
profession is going to be killed by self-driving technology. As such,
just why would one be motivated to enter that career field?
There is no vehicle right now that is even *close* to being
self-driving. The best we have is cars that work "most" of the time.
Nothing like a big rig being safe "most" of the time....
It doesn't matter that the technology isn't there yet, because its the news
of "its coming soon", with those articles noting that the tech is going to
invariably wipe out those jobs. That reporting affects the number of
potential new hire prospects: instead of paying for the specialty training,
to enter the field, some portion of them simply look elsewhere, throwing
the hire-retire ratio out of balance.
We aren't even in the "coming soon" category. How about you provide a
citation to credible studies that show that your claimed reason is a
factor?
Post by -hh
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match.
For just which worker segment is this true? Anyone below the 1%?
Because it certainly isn't the case for the bottom quintile who are
<https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/>
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/best-states/minimum-wage-by-state
I grabbed the wrong chart on the lookup, but the disparity between Wage
gains & Productivity gains is at the very core of the 40 years of erosion of
the Middle Class, which is particularly acute for the lower quintiles.
But to make just the absolutely direct comparison that you want, here's
<https://www.epi.org/publication/labor-day-2019-minimum-wage/>
Productivity is not part relevant to the current subject. Please stay
on topic.
Post by -hh
"The federal minimum wage is worth 17% less than it was 10 years ago"
...as it is illustrating the same trend where the MW lags behind inflation.
It just isn't as large as the lag behind productivity gains.
FYI, here's some more links to illustrate another factor in all of this,
which is that the numbers can be pretty easily manipulated, such as
by cherrypicking one's timescale for the start point. Here's two such
<https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/04/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/>
<https://m.usw.org/blog/2018/the-u-s-economy-can-afford-a-15-minimum-wage>
YMMV on what is the more appropriate choice, since there's really many
factors to consider in this, such as how many MW "entry level" jobs today
may not be as physically laborious, but require more skills/educations than
what a guy leaning on a coal shovel in 1938 needed to do his job.
Post by NoBody
Just for "minimum wage" 24 states increased actual wages.
So? There's been new laws just passed in some States, but the same
basic question remains: "...did the law actually keep up with inflation?"
And yet you can't see the problem with your "logic" The increased
wages are *fueling* inflation which, in turn, cuts spending power.
Artificially raising wages results in no improvement in buying power.
-hh
2021-10-23 02:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by -hh
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive
the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
<https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/>
What do you propose be done about that?
FWIW, anyone who's been contemplating becoming a truck driver
has been reading headlines for the past ~7 years about how that
profession is going to be killed by self-driving technology. As such,
just why would one be motivated to enter that career field?
There is no vehicle right now that is even *close* to being
self-driving. The best we have is cars that work "most" of the time.
Nothing like a big rig being safe "most" of the time....
It doesn't matter that the technology isn't there yet, because its the news
of "its coming soon", with those articles noting that the tech is going to
invariably wipe out those jobs. That reporting affects the number of
potential new hire prospects: instead of paying for the specialty training,
to enter the field, some portion of them simply look elsewhere, throwing
the hire-retire ratio out of balance.
We aren't even in the "coming soon" category. How about you provide a
citation to credible studies that show that your claimed reason is a
factor?
Here's a 2017 article on the topic:
<https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-the-robots-take-over-will-there-be-jobs-left-for-us/>

Plus the real point is that the topic has been raised within the public eye,
such that people are aware that there's concerns that that career field
may disappear, or at least decline.

Same thing happened 100 years ago with buggy whip manufacturers: they
knew that the rise of the horseless carriage was going to have an adverse effect
on their industry, even if the exact "drop dead date" was still uncertain.

FWIW, I don't know about you, but I researched what the short & long term job
prospects were in the career field that I was interested in, BEFORE I spent the
money to go off for schooling in it. Its basic "ROI" common sense to do so.
Post by -hh
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match.
For just which worker segment is this true? Anyone below the 1%?
Because it certainly isn't the case for the bottom quintile who are
<https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/>
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/best-states/minimum-wage-by-state
I grabbed the wrong chart on the lookup, but the disparity between Wage
gains & Productivity gains is at the very core of the 40 years of erosion of
the Middle Class, which is particularly acute for the lower quintiles.
But to make just the absolutely direct comparison that you want, here's
<https://www.epi.org/publication/labor-day-2019-minimum-wage/>
Productivity is not part relevant to the current subject. Please stay
on topic.
No, you're merely trying to make it off-topic because it illustrates just how
much real erosion of income potential there has been for the non-1%.

FYI, you should go find the plot of the income/wealth of the 1% vs the same
productivity growth curve ... and then try to explain to us why that group was
above the line.
Post by -hh
"The federal minimum wage is worth 17% less than it was 10 years ago"
...as it is illustrating the same trend where the MW lags behind inflation.
It just isn't as large as the lag behind productivity gains.
Gosh, silence from you here. How does it feel to complain that it was the
"wrong" graph, to only be shown that the correct graph proves you wrong too?
Post by -hh
FYI, here's some more links to illustrate another factor in all of this,
which is that the numbers can be pretty easily manipulated, such as
by cherrypicking one's timescale for the start point. Here's two such
<https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/04/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/>
<https://m.usw.org/blog/2018/the-u-s-economy-can-afford-a-15-minimum-wage>
YMMV on what is the more appropriate choice, since there's really many
factors to consider in this, such as how many MW "entry level" jobs today
may not be as physically laborious, but require more skills/educations than
what a guy leaning on a coal shovel in 1938 needed to do his job.
Post by NoBody
Just for "minimum wage" 24 states increased actual wages.
So? There's been new laws just passed in some States, but the same
basic question remains: "...did the law actually keep up with inflation?"
And yet you can't see the problem with your "logic" The increased
wages are *fueling* inflation which, in turn, cuts spending power.
Artificially raising wages results in no improvement in buying power.
Oh, so its only wage increases which fuels inflation?
Cite, please.

This should be particularly entertaining, because it is where those
pesky productivity gains *decrease* the labor cost fraction per unit.

-hh
Siri Cruise
2021-10-23 10:31:37 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by -hh
Post by -hh
It doesn't matter that the technology isn't there yet, because its the news
The technology has been there for years. Embed sensors in
restricted access roads with matching equipment in vehicles. As
long as human labour is cheaper than the technology upgrades we
stick to human labour. But when labour becomes too scarce and
expensive, technology comes in, reduces its cost, and increases
productivity.
Post by -hh
Post by -hh
invariably wipe out those jobs. That reporting affects the number of
The lack of humans leaves many jobs unfilled. Technology steps
in. Then the jobs disappear. It sucks for a generation that
society traditionally abandons, but subsequent generations
benefit.
Post by -hh
<https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-the-robots-take-over-will-there-be-jobs-lef
t-for-us/>
What's differring today is computers are replacing lesser
brainpower. So we are near or already past where all the
necessities can be provided without human labour. But we're
sending all the profits to a few instead of sharing with all.
Post by -hh
Post by -hh
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
According to free market principles they aren't offerring enough.
They will have to pay more or seek alternatives. Of course if we
abandon the free market, other analyses are possible, but that
would mean big government commienism.
Post by -hh
Productivity is not part relevant to the current subject. Please stay
on topic.
Productivity is the whole of the subject. It is profits per
worker.
Post by -hh
FYI, you should go find the plot of the income/wealth of the 1% vs the same
productivity growth curve ... and then try to explain to us why that group was
above the line.
In the 1970s central banks decided the way to control inflation
was to create artificially high unemployment. This would
disincentise workers from demanding higher wages. At the same
time worker productivity and thus profits increased. Since the
profits don't vanish and central banks discourage sharing
profits, the profits get funnelled into fewer and fewer people.

And part of the problem is that money is not equated to energy
and thus subject to conservation laws, but money is promise of
energy, and the promises have to be reconciled to reality later.
Post by -hh
And yet you can't see the problem with your "logic" The increased
wages are *fueling* inflation which, in turn, cuts spending power.
Artificially raising wages results in no improvement in buying power.
The only value of money is the faith it will fulfill its promise
of getting material goods and energy in the future. Money is
devalues (inflation) when that promise has to be adjusted.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
NoBody
2021-10-24 13:49:50 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 19:33:35 -0700 (PDT), -hh
Post by -hh
Post by -hh
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
wrote: >>
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lee
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive
the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
<https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/>
What do you propose be done about that?
FWIW, anyone who's been contemplating becoming a truck driver
has been reading headlines for the past ~7 years about how that
profession is going to be killed by self-driving technology. As such,
just why would one be motivated to enter that career field?
There is no vehicle right now that is even *close* to being
self-driving. The best we have is cars that work "most" of the time.
Nothing like a big rig being safe "most" of the time....
It doesn't matter that the technology isn't there yet, because its the news
of "its coming soon", with those articles noting that the tech is going to
invariably wipe out those jobs. That reporting affects the number of
potential new hire prospects: instead of paying for the specialty training,
to enter the field, some portion of them simply look elsewhere, throwing
the hire-retire ratio out of balance.
We aren't even in the "coming soon" category. How about you provide a
citation to credible studies that show that your claimed reason is a
factor?
<https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-the-robots-take-over-will-there-be-jobs-left-for-us/>
Plus the real point is that the topic has been raised within the public eye,
such that people are aware that there's concerns that that career field
may disappear, or at least decline.
Same thing happened 100 years ago with buggy whip manufacturers: they
knew that the rise of the horseless carriage was going to have an adverse effect
on their industry, even if the exact "drop dead date" was still uncertain.
FWIW, I don't know about you, but I researched what the short & long term job
prospects were in the career field that I was interested in, BEFORE I spent the
money to go off for schooling in it. Its basic "ROI" common sense to do so.
Your citation has NOTHING to do with the viability of self driving
trucks, much less them discouraging the people for taking the driving
jobs. If you don't have an answer, just admit it.
Post by -hh
Post by -hh
Post by NoBody
Post by -hh
Post by Lee
Post by Lee
Post by Siri Cruise
The free market is only a good thing when it brings profit to
republicans. Otherwise the only possible solution is, no, not
accepting a hit on profits, but government regulation.
As Biden said, we don't have a low labor
participation problem, we have a low wage
problem.
Yeah that's it. Companies are offering incentives for people to
to go to work and it's still not enough to you lefties.
Workers don't need "incentives",
they need a liveable wage. When is
the last time YOU got by on the
current minimum wage?
Wages have gone up and so has inflation to match.
For just which worker segment is this true? Anyone below the 1%?
Because it certainly isn't the case for the bottom quintile who are
<https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/>
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/best-states/minimum-wage-by-state
I grabbed the wrong chart on the lookup, but the disparity between Wage
gains & Productivity gains is at the very core of the 40 years of erosion of
the Middle Class, which is particularly acute for the lower quintiles.
But to make just the absolutely direct comparison that you want, here's
<https://www.epi.org/publication/labor-day-2019-minimum-wage/>
Productivity is not part relevant to the current subject. Please stay
on topic.
No, you're merely trying to make it off-topic because it illustrates just how
much real erosion of income potential there has been for the non-1%.
Changing the subject from wages and inflation to productivity is
changing the subject no matter how hard you stomp your feet.

NoBody
2021-10-14 10:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee
Post by NoBody
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:19:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
wrote: >>
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by NoBody
Post by Lee
Pressure is growing on Biden to
lift Trump's tariffs as supply
chain problems worsen
October 3, 2021
Washington (CNN)There's a quick
move President Joe Biden could
make to immediately help relieve
the stress the pandemic-related
supply chain crisis is having on
US companies: Lift the tariffs
imposed by former President Donald
Trump.
We have a log jam of goods sitting offshore that can't be delivered
because no one wants to work.
Another right-wingnut lie.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/10/02/no-back-up-of-cargo-shi
ps-off-southern-california-coast-not-due-to-manufactured-supply-chai
n-halt/
Experts say that one of the biggest reasons for the pile-up in
ships is a shift in consumer spending habits as folks spend more
time at home.
Another left winger lie.
One reason for supply shortages: No one to drive the trucks.
Because of low pay and terrible working
conditions.
https://www.smart-trucking.com/truck-driver-shortage/
Attempted evasion noted, Lying Lee.
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