Discussion:
people sign petition for 911 FACTS
(too old to reply)
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-15 20:04:28 UTC
Permalink
More people sign petition for 911 FACTS
Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine today filed a petition with the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) seeking correction of
inaccurate factual statements and analysis in NIST's reports on the
destruction of the Twin Towers.

Mr. Doyle is the representative of the largest group of 9/11 families, the
Coalition of 9/11 Families*, and lost his own son Joey in the collapse of
the twin towers.

Mr. McIlvaine, an outspoken 9/11 truth activist, lost his son Bobby when the
World Trade Centers were destroyed.

Another prominent 9/11 family member supports the petition, but decided for
personal reasons not to sign.

Also signing the petition are:

. Physicist Dr. Steven Jones

. Scientist and former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a
division of Underwriters Laboratories, Kevin Ryan

. Architect Richard Gage (a member of the American Institute of Architects,
who has been a practicing architect for 20 years and has been responsible
for the production of construction documents for numerous steel-framed and
fire-protected buildings for uses in many different areas, including
education, civic, rapid transit and industrial use)

. And the group Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice

The petition can be read here. It is very strong and solid, and well worth a
read.




Quote:
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions



1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?

No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.

2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?

No, credible people from across the political spectrum question 9/11,
including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and prominent
centrists.

3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to
question the events of that day?

No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed. The same is true of many
dying heroes - the first responders who worked tirelessly to save lives on
and after 9/11 - and are soon to become victims of the 9/11 attacks
themselves. See this article.

4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11, and the war on terror
is a clash of civilizations and religions? Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism
harmful to our faith? And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?

Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith. That is
why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.

Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed, prominent
Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of 9/11 has the
power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to our world.

5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?

Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.

6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American, and isn't all the
questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?

Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.

7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important issues
facing America today?

On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.

8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.

Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western governments --
have done so before. Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved
a plan to carry out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on
Cuba, as a justification for invading Cuba. And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but that
the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen . There are many other examples
of other governments killing their own people for political gain, and the
U.S. government killing its own as well.

As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero, after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk, going
as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks. The U.S.
government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war, causing
thousands of American deaths.

9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon
was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?

No, it was not unexpected.

10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't it
the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11 attacks?

It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of fake
radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented the good
people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding against
their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated people in the
U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could not do their
job.

11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have been
necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the beans by
now if there really was a conspiracy?

Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have pulled
it off.

12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?

Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S. faking
intelligence in order to promote its political goals.

Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable before
9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were the real
cause of 9/11?

And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11. Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?

And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain people
for 9/11. Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true?
Do innocent people plant fake evidence?

13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken timeline,
solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?

Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple, completely
conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to this
interview).

Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame other
agencies made no sense.

14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?

In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.

15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?

No, that is not true.

16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11, why
would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when crashing
planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a "Pearl
Harbor" type justification for war?

Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.

17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't the
media have been "all over it"? Isn't the fact that most mainstream media
sources don't spend much time covering these questions show there's nothing
there?

No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.

Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
and that:

''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean
is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong with
our .... system".

18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?

No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence which
overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one or two
theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.

Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking, and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who are
working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the movement.
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-15 20:06:24 UTC
Permalink
The petition can be read here
http://911blogger.com/files/NIST_DQA_Petition%28redacted%29.pdf
Post by downgoesfrazier
More people sign petition for 911 FACTS
Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine today filed a petition with the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) seeking correction of
inaccurate factual statements and analysis in NIST's reports on the
destruction of the Twin Towers.
Mr. Doyle is the representative of the largest group of 9/11 families, the
Coalition of 9/11 Families*, and lost his own son Joey in the collapse of
the twin towers.
Mr. McIlvaine, an outspoken 9/11 truth activist, lost his son Bobby when
the World Trade Centers were destroyed.
Another prominent 9/11 family member supports the petition, but decided
for personal reasons not to sign.
. Physicist Dr. Steven Jones
. Scientist and former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories,
a division of Underwriters Laboratories, Kevin Ryan
. Architect Richard Gage (a member of the American Institute of
Architects, who has been a practicing architect for 20 years and has been
responsible for the production of construction documents for numerous
steel-framed and fire-protected buildings for uses in many different
areas, including education, civic, rapid transit and industrial use)
. And the group Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice
The petition can be read here. It is very strong and solid, and well worth
a read.
h***@yahoo.com
2007-04-15 19:13:22 UTC
Permalink
The petition can be read herehttp://911blogger.com/files/NIST_DQA_Petition%28redacted%29.pdf
And what does petitioning a baboon accomplish?

Support the Hohensee-Feingold Amendment.

Rick Hohensee
Scotius
2007-04-19 03:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
The petition can be read herehttp://911blogger.com/files/NIST_DQA_Petition%28redacted%29.pdf
And what does petitioning a baboon accomplish?
Diddley squat. Bush and his crowd respect what they believe to
be power and nothing else.
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Support the Hohensee-Feingold Amendment.
Rick Hohensee
Vandar
2007-04-15 20:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question 9/11,
including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and prominent
centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to
question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many
dying heroes - the first responders who worked tirelessly to save lives on
and after 9/11 - and are soon to become victims of the 9/11 attacks
themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed, prominent
Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of 9/11 has the
power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.

Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important issues
facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western governments --
have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved
a plan to carry out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on
Cuba, as a justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented
in the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but that
the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples
of other governments killing their own people for political gain, and the
U.S. government killing its own as well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em"
as if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S.
government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war, causing
thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon
was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't it
the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11 attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of fake
radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented the good
people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding against
their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated people in the
U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could not do their
job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.

NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic
flights. What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some
mythical sinister plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret
government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have been
necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the beans by
now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have pulled
it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches
that conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and
miscellaneous other citizens would not only all have to be in on it,
they would have to execute the most complicated plan in the history of
mankind absolutely perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.

If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S. faking
intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable before
9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were the real
cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to
monitor domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can
do until something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?

? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain people
for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true?
Do innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken timeline,
solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple, completely
conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to this
interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply
that NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame other
agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and
moves on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11, why
would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when crashing
planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a "Pearl
Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think
that the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have
been shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't the
media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media
sources don't spend much time covering these questions show there's nothing
there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean
is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong with
our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.

Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.

'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is
in trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4

There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence which
overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one or two
theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who are
working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
Rev. 11D Meow!
2007-04-16 03:23:00 UTC
Permalink
What else is new, Vandar?
I am as dumb as a box of rocks.
Vandar
2007-04-16 04:05:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
What else is new, Vandar?
Oh look! Disingenuousness and misrepresentation from a "truthy". How
unsurprising.
Rev. 11D Meow!
2007-04-16 04:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Such big words from a dittohead.
Post by Vandar
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
What else is new, Vandar?
Oh look! Disingenuousness and misrepresentation from a "truthy". How
unsurprising.
Vandar
2007-04-16 05:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
Such big words from a dittohead.
Next time I point out how stupid you make yourself look, I'll be sure to
dumb down it down for you.
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
Post by Vandar
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
What else is new, Vandar?
Oh look! Disingenuousness and misrepresentation from a "truthy". How
unsurprising.
Rev. 11D Meow!
2007-04-16 05:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Have fun trying.
The stuff you post couldn't get any more dumbed-down.
Post by Vandar
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
Such big words from a dittohead.
Next time I point out how stupid you make yourself look, I'll be sure to
dumb down it down for you.
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
Post by Vandar
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
What else is new, Vandar?
Oh look! Disingenuousness and misrepresentation from a "truthy". How
unsurprising.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-17 03:24:54 UTC
Permalink
You'll notice that Vandar doesnt respond to the posts that include a
rebuttal to his one word answers.

Well it wouldn't matter how smart they are, you are not going to
hijack a plane in US airspace and fly around for an hour without being
intercepted by fighter jets. So why would you plan to in the first
place?

"NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
By Steven Komarow and Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON - In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North
American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what
the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners
used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center. In another
exercise, jets performed a mock shootdown over the Atlantic Ocean of a
jet supposedly laden with chemical poisons headed toward a target in
the United States. In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon -
but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was
unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say. "

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm
Some years ago, nutters were saying that about the pyramids, or do
you believe Arabs were too stupid to build the pyramids, so they must
have been built by aliens
I have seen much evidence that UFOs are promoted by the US military -
there are even aircrafts they have built that look like flying saucers
from below.

Look at these photos:
http://www.iamthewitness.com/FlyingSaucers/FlyingSaucers.html


So all these suckers fall for it and waste their time thinking about
UFOs. That way they are distracted from the real issues.

Also I have never seen a 9/11 conspiracy theory that argues Alien
technology was involved. I only see Officiale defenders like yourself
try to associate the serious issue of false-flag terrorism with it. It
is clearly an object of disinformation agents to bury the 911 Truth
movement and the 25 Rules of Disinformation is the way they are doing
it.

HAve you watched any 9/11 Truth documetnaries? Which ones? List them
Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
What else is new, Vandar?
Oh look! Disingenuousness and misrepresentation from a "truthy". How
unsurprising.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in
December 2003. Currently serves on the board of directors of the
Export-Import Bank of the United States. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1997 -
2002. Secretary of State of Georgia 1982 - 1996. Administrator of the U.S.
Veterans Administration 1977 - 1981. Captain, U.S. Army awarded Silver Star
and Bronze Star for bravery in Viet Nam. Triple amputee from war injuries.
a.. New York Times Article 10/26/03: "As each day goes by, we learn that
this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before Sept. 11
than it has ever admitted." http://www.commondreams.org



a.. Boston Globe Article 11/13/03: "If this decision stands [to limit access
to White House documents], I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot
look any American in the eye, especially family members of victims, and say
the Commission had full access. This investigation is now compromised."
http://www.



a.. Salon Article 11/21/03: Regarding the 9/11 Commission "It is a national
scandal." http://dir.salon.com



a.. Resigned from the 9/11 Commission, 12/03, after having served on it for
12 months. Former Senator Bob Kerrey from Nebraska was selected to replace
him. The 9/11 Commission Report was issued 7 months later.



a.. Transcript of audio interview 3/23/04: "One of these days we will have
to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But
this White House wants to cover it up." http://www.democracynow.org

Senator Bob Graham - Former U.S. Senator from Florida 1987 - 2004. Former
Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Co-Chairman of the Joint
House-Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (JICI) that investigated the
events of 9/11. Former Governor of Florida 1979 - 1986
a.. Salon Article 9/8/04: "As the Senate Intelligence Committee chairman
during the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks and the run-up to the Iraq war,
Sen. Bob Graham tried to expose what he came to believe were national
security coverups and manipulations by the Bush administration. But he
discovered that it was hard to reveal a coverup playing by the rules. Much
of the evidence the Florida Democrat needed to buttress his arguments was
being locked away, he found, under the veil of politically motivated
classification. ...

Question by Mary Jacoby: You write about the Bush administration's
suppression of the joint House-Senate intelligence panel's findings on Saudi
Arabian links to 9/11. What exactly was suppressed, and why?

Bob Graham: In general terms it included the details of why we [on the
committee] had raised suspicion that the Saudi government and various
representatives of Saudi interests had supported some of the hijackers --
and might have supported all of them. My own personal conclusion was that
the evidence of official Saudi support for at least two of the terrorists in
San Diego was, as one CIA agent said, incontrovertible. ...

The White House played a heavy role throughout not only our investigation
but the investigation of the 9/11 commission." http://dir.salon.com



b.. Editor's note: Despite the finding of the Joint House-Senate Select
Intelligence Committee's 2002 Report (p.415) of "sources of foreign support
for some of the September 11 hijackers", the 9/11 Commission Report (p. 172)
states, "Similarly, we have seen no evidence that any foreign government --
or government official -- supplied any funding."



c.. Bio: http://bioguide.congress.gov...
Senator Mark Dayton - Former U.S. Senator from Minnesota 2001 - 2006.
Member, Senate Committee on Armed Services and Senate Committee on Homeland
Security and Governmental Services.
a.. Senate Hearings on the 9/11 Commission Report 7/31/04: "They [NORAD]
lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your
9/11 Commission. ... For almost three years now NORAD officials and FAA
officials have been able to hide their critical failures that left this
country defenseless during two of the worst hours in our history."
http://www.911truth



b.. Editor's note: On August 1, 2006, Thomas Kean, Chairman of the 9/11
Commission said, "We, to this day, don't know why NORAD [the North American
Aerospace Command] told us what they told us. It was just so far from the
truth. ... It's one of those loose ends that never got tied." Link Despite
the many public statements by 9/11 Commissioners and staff members
acknowledging they were repeatedly lied to, not a single person has ever
been charged, tried, or even reprimanded for lying to the 9/11 Commission.



c.. Article 7/31/04: "Dayton, a former Minnesota state auditor, called the
FAA's and NORAD's failures "the most gross incompetence and dereliction of
responsibility and negligence that I've ever, under those extreme
circumstances, witnessed in the public sector." http://www.9111



d.. Bio: http://bioguide.congress.gov
Congressman Ron Paul, MD - 9-term Congressman from Texas, 1979 - 1985,
1997 - present. Member of the House Financial Services Committee, the
International Relations committee, and the Joint Economic Committee. On the
Financial Services Committee, he serves as the Vice Chairman of the
Oversight and Investigations subcommittee. 1988 Libertarian Party candidate
for President. Former Flight Surgeon, U.S. Air Force.
a.. Audio interview The Alex Jones Show 1/18/07: "Dr. Ron Paul, Texas
Congressman exploring a run for President, appeared on The Alex Jones Show
Wednesday and had the following to say about 9/11:

Caller: I want a complete, impartial, and totally independent
investigation of the events of September 11, 2001 . I'm tired of this bogus
garbage about terrorism. Ask Michael Meacher about how he feels about this
bogus war on terrorism. Can you comment on that please?

Congressman Paul: Well, that would be nice to have. Unfortunately, we
don't have that in place. It will be a little bit better now with the
Democrats now in charge of oversight. But you know, for top level policy
there's not a whole lot of difference between the two policies so a real
investigation isn't going to happen. But I think we have to keep pushing for
it. And like you and others, we see the investigations that have been done
so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation of what went on."
http://www.total911.info

Bio: http://www.house.gov/paul/bio.shtml
a.. Gov. Jesse Ventura - 38th Governor of Minnesota 1999 - 2003. Member,
U.S. Navy Underwater Demolition Team 12 (precursor to SEAL) 1969 - 1975.
U.S. Navy Reserves, SEAL Team 1. Former professional wrestler and actor. The
Running Man (1987), Predator (1987). Author or co-author of I Ain't Got
Time to Bleed: Reworking the Body Politic from the Bottom up (2000),
Quotations of Chairman Jesse (2000), Do I Stand Alone?: Going to the Mat
Against Political Pawns and Media Jackals (2001), Jesse Ventura Tells It
Like It Is: America's Most Outspoken Governor Speaks Out About Government
(2002), The New Prohibition: Voices of Dissent Challenge the Drug War
(2004).
a.. Video interview The Alex Jones Show 9/26/06: "The thing I question
on 9/11 was simply the fact; where were our planes? When all this was going
on and planes were being hijacked an hour apart and there were four of them
They cover about a six-hour space. At no time, to my knowledge, did we have
any fighter planes up in the air. Why? ...

In light of the fact that there was a cover-up that got us into the Viet
Nam war and there was, in my opinion, a cover-up of John Kennedy's
assassination, I would just say that I don't believe it's beyond reason to
not at least consider that the government certainly would do things like
that." http://www.infowars.com/articles



b.. Interview Black Op Radio 8/20/04: "At first, again, I wanted to
believe 9/11, you know. But the problem I have with 9/11 is just a real
simple one. I'm trying to figure out -- and of course they're now attempting
to answer it somewhat -- how we could have failed so miserably in not having
air defense. ...

And the problem I have with 9/11 is that. Where the heck was our
defense? Who was sleeping at the wheel? While all of these planes... I mean,
I've been to air traffic control when I was Governor, and you've got a dozen
people there looking at these dials, watching every plane in their sector.
They know where it's going and they know what direction it's supposed to be
going

Now, how is it that these planes were able to be hijacked at half hour
intervals, turned directly opposite the way they're supposed to be going and
no bells went off, no emergency sirens went off, no fighter jets were
scrambled? Just what the hell happened in that area of time?! And that's the
part that troubles me about 9/11. ...

I mean here's the Pentagon, the head of our military. How was this plane
able to circle the city of Baltimore [sic] at least once, picking out a
target, and then drive into it, and we didn't have -- nothing up in the air?
There wasn't one scrambled fighter jet up there to defend in any way, shape,
or form?" http://www.libertypost.org
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Congressman Dennis Kucinich - 6-term Congressman from Ohio. Former mayor
of Cleveland. Chairman of the Domestic Policy Subcommittee of the Committee
on Oversight and Government Reform. Member, Committee on Education and
Labor. 2003 recipient of the Gandhi Peace Award.
a.. Video interview with Justin A. Martell of Student Scholars for 9/11
Truth 4/5/07:

Justin A. Martell: Would you in any way maybe address the 9/11 Truth
Movement?

Congressman Kucinich: First of all, you have to understand that all over
the country people are concerned about whether or not they've been told the
truth about 9/11. And the way that the administration handled 9/11, taking
us into a war against Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11, deepened
people's suspicions about the possibility there may have been a cover-up.
Because, why would the government lie about a cause for war? And so, what
I'm saying is that I respect the concerns people have about whether they've
been told the truth or not.

Because I want to be President of the United States, I know that unless
you address that lack of trust, you're not going to be able to successfully
lead a nation. And I want to be quite specific about this. It's my
intention as Chairman of the Domestic Policy Subcommittee to focus in on two
areas that I've -- there are a number of areas, probably dozens of areas
that haven't been appropriately probed -- but I know of two, that I'm
looking at. I'm not at liberty to discuss exactly what they are, but our
committee will hold hearings on two discreet areas that have major
implications with respect to the story that Americans have been told about
9/11."




b.. Article 3/26/07: "Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich predicted
Sunday that by the time the New Hampshire primary arrives early next year,
so many Americans will have tired of the war in Iraq that his peace platform
will make him the choice for the Democratic nomination. ...

He also said that as chairman of a House subcommittee on domestic policy,
he plans to launch an investigation of "a narrow portion" of the Sept. 11,
2001, terrorist attacks. He offered few details, but said his subcommittee
would be looking at "a few, specific discrepancies in the public record."
The 9/11 Commission that published its final report in 2004 never resolved
some conflicting facts, Kucinich said. He announced his own look at 9/11 in
answer to a question from an audience member. The man complained that the
9/11 Commission was too tied to the Bush administration to offer an unbiased
report, and Kucinich agreed." http://timesunion.com



c.. Bio: http://kucinich.house.gov/Biography/



d.. Website: http://kucinich.us/
Congressman Curt Weldon - Former 10-term Congressman from Pennsylvania
1987 - 2006. Former Vice Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee.
Former Vice Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
a.. Fox News Article 8/28/05: Regarding the 9/11 Commission "There's
something very sinister going on here that really troubles me," Weldon told
FOX News on Thursday, blasting the Sept. 11 commission for not taking the
claims more seriously. He said some panel members were trying to smear [Lt.
Col. Anthony] Shaffer and Able Danger. "What's the Sept. 11 commission got
to hide?" Weldon asked." http://www.foxnews.com



b.. Press conference transcript 9/17/05: Regarding the 9/11 Commission
Report "There's something wrong here, something tragically wrong. The
American people, the families, the country and the Congress need to know the
truth, the whole truth, the complete truth. And so far we haven't gotten
it. . Somebody's got to connect the dots and answer the questions. If the
9/11 Commission won't do it, then Congress has to do it." http://www.gl



c.. Speech on the floor of Congress 10/19/05: "I am not a conspiracy
theorist, but there is something desperately wrong, Mr. Speaker. There is
something outrageous at work here. This is not a third-rate burglary of a
political campaign headquarters. This involved what is right now the
covering up of information that led to the deaths of 3,000 people, changed
the course of history, led to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and has
disrupted our country, our economy and people's lives." http://frwebgate



d.. Editor's note: The 9/11 Commission Report asserts that only three of
the alleged hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to
9/11; Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is no
mention in the Report that the names and photographs of alleged hijacker
Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader Mohamed Atta had been identified by
the Department of Defense antiterrorist program known as Able Danger more
than a year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of
al-Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdar.
http://www.foxnews.com. See also Louis Freeh, Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer,
Cap. Scott J. Phillpott, Major Erik Kleinsmith, and James D. Smith.



e.. Bio: http://www.montcogop.org

Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney - Former 6-term Congresswoman from Georgia
1993 - 2002, 2005 - 2006. Member of the House Armed Services Committee and
Member of the International Relations Committee. Georgia state legislator
1988 - 1992.
a.. Congressional Briefing 7/22/05: "Within days of the attacks, we were
told that the perpetrators were from a terrorist network known as al-Qaeda.
When reporters and members of the public asked for details, then Secretary
of State Colin Powell promised that it would be made all clear to the world
in a White Paper.

Nearly 4 years, and 2 wars later, we still have no official statement from
the Bush administration on the specifics of who did it, who aided and
financed them or what their origins are.

For the families who suffered so much loss this surely feels like adding
insult to injury. They deserve to know everything that there is to be known
about how their loved ones died. They fought for an investigation that would
be non-partisan, independent, and that would get to the bottom of things.
But, as work got underway, not only did the Commission run up against
obstruction by the administration and non-cooperation from government
agencies, many, if not most of the commissioners themselves had conflicts of
interest.

And several commissioners spoke out about problems in the process; the
lack of investigative rigor and heavy reliance on previous work; the
Joint-Commission Report, the drafting of recommendations before the
investigative process got rolling, the failure to take testimony under oath
or in many cases to even take transcripts. ...

Then last year, we got the final report. An extensive, prosaically
impressive report. But as some of us sat down to read it, the errors and
omissions immediately jumped out at us.

How was it that it took over an hour after the first transponder went off
before planes were scrambled to meet the threat? All of them too late.

What happened to those reports that surfaced within months of September
11th stating that 7 or more of the alleged hijackers had come forward and
claimed that they were victims of stolen identities ...? Why did the
Commission choose not even to address this?

What about the terrorist Omar Said Sheikh? ... According to Indian
intelligence, this man received orders from a Pakistani General to transfer
$100,000 to Mohammed Atta. People all over the world are talking about this
story. But not a word about it in the Report.

What about Osama bin Laden and his role in the Mujahadin backed by the CIA
in the 1980's to fight the Soviets? The Commission didn't go there."
http://www.911readingroom.org



b.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article
c.. Norm Mineta - U.S. Secretary of Transportation 2001 - 2006. U.S.
Secretary of Commerce 2000 - 2001. Senior Vice President, Lockheed Martin
1995 - 2000. Former 12-term Congressman from California 1971 - 1995.
Currently, Vice Chairman of the Board, Hill & Knowlton.
a.. 9/11 Commission testimony 5/23/03:

Lee Hamilton: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on
the Presidential Emergency Operating Center [PEOC]. You were there for a
good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And
when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that
authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to
be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

Norm Mineta: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that
the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in
and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30
miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young
man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the
vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the
orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the
time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

Lee Hamilton: The flight you're referring to is the --

Norm Mineta: The flight that came into the Pentagon. ...
http://www.youtube.com


Norm Mineta: I didn't know about the order to shoot down. I arrived at
the PEOC at about 9:20 a.m. And the president was in Florida, and I believe
he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went
on between the vice president and the president and the staff that the
president had with him.

Tim Roemer: So when you arrived at 9:20 [at the Presidential Emergency
Operating Center in the White House], how much longer was it before you
overheard the conversation between the young man and the vice president
saying, "Does the order still stand?"

Norm Mineta: Probably about five or six minutes.

Tim Roemer: So about 9:25 or 9:26. And your inference
was that the vice president snapped his head around and said, "Yes, the
order still stands." Why did you infer that that was a shoot-down?
http://www.youtube.com


b.. Editor's note: Secretary Mineta's testimony is entirely omitted from
the 9/11 Commission Report. His testimony directly contradicts the 9/11
Commission Report in two key points.

1. Mr. Mineta testified he arrived at the Presidential Emergency
Operations Center (PEOC) in the White House at 9:20 a.m. and observed Vice
President Dick Cheney discussing with an aide that the incoming Flight 77
was 50 miles out at 9:25 or 9:26. The 9/11 Commission Report maintains Vice
President Cheney did not arrive at the PEOC until 9:58, over one-half hour
later. Mr. Mineta's testimony is further supported by the fact that Flight
77 crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37, which is the correct time it would
have taken Flight 77 to arrive at the Pentagon, if it had been about 50
miles out at 9:26.

2. The Commission Report maintains the government did not know the
whereabouts of Flight 77 prior 9:32, when Dulles Tower air controllers
"observed a primary radar target tracking eastbound at a high rate of
speed". Mr. Mineta's testimony reveals Vice President Cheney was being
informed of the plane's position for several minutes before that, and
perhaps considerably longer.

Also of interest, is that the first approximately 15 minutes of Mr.
Mineta's testimony before the Commission (Panel 1, Friday, May 23. 2003)
during which he discusses the points mentioned above, have been edited out
of the official 9/11 Commission video archives. However, his entire
testimony does appear in the transcript.



c.. Bio: http://www.nndb.com/people/649/000024577/
d.. Louis Freeh - Director of the FBI, 1993 - 2001. Former U.S. District
Court Judge for the Southern District of New York, appointed by President
George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former
FBI agent. Former officer in the United States Army JAG Corps Reserve.
a.. Essay An Incomplete Investigation - Why did the 9/11 Commission
ignore "Able Danger"? Wall Street Journal 11/17/05: "Even the most junior
investigator would immediately know that the name and photo ID of Atta in
2000 is precisely the kind of tactical intelligence the FBI has many times
employed to prevent attacks and arrest terrorists. Yet the 9/11 Commission
inexplicably concluded that it "was not historically significant." This
astounding conclusion--in combination with the failure to investigate Able
Danger and incorporate it into its findings--raises serious challenges to
the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render
the commission historically insignificant itself. . No wonder the 9/11
families were outraged by these revelations and called for a "new"
commission to investigate." http://www.opin



b.. Interview Lou Dobbs Tonight 11/30/05: Regarding the Able Danger
anti-terrorism data mining program.

Lou Dobbs: Why is there this reaction to what is called by more than
half of our congressmen and women, to open up and to allow our elected
representatives to know what happened?

Louis Freeh: Well, it's a great question. I mean, the issue here, which
was the issue when the 9/11 commission first responded to this, is they
obviously missed something. They obviously didn't consider what at least is
a very important allegation.

Their response to it, it was historically insignificant. Historically
insignificant that an intelligence unit may have identified by name and
photo, Mohamed Atta a year before the 9/11 hijackings as a member of al
Qaeda in the United States.

Lou Dobbs: Tim Roemer, Slade Gorton, other members of the 9/11
commission have said they just had no hard evidence to deal with here. How
do you respond?

Louis Freeh: I disagree with that. I was a prosecutor and an FBI agent
for many, many years. I deal in facts. You have two witnesses. You have
United States Naval Academy graduate, Captain Philpot, you have Lieutenant
Colonel Shaffer, an army intelligence officer. These aren't data loaders,
these are intelligence experts who both have said, unequivocally, this unit
identified Mohammed Atta by name and possibly photo in mid 2000.

To say that they don't have any documents to prove their case, these
aren't informants that we have to verify their credibility. We have
testimonial evidence, which, as a prosecutor, that's more potent sometimes
than documentary evidence.

Lou Dobbs: You were director of the FBI until June of 2001. Were you
ever aware of Able Danger? Was the FBI ever given any reason to sense that
there was some military intelligence or military intelligence evidence or
suggestion that there would be an attack or some relationship to Mohamed
Atta?

Louis Freeh: Absolutely not. Myself, but also my former colleagues and
current FBI colleagues, we read about this in the newspapers in August of
this year. And what is very significant here Lou -- which is a point that
has been made, and which I think you made -- we had officers at Able Danger
who made appointments, actually made appointments to go to the FBI and share
this intelligence in 2000 and those appointments were canceled.

It had to be a very powerful stimulus, this intelligence and
information, to make these officers want to really breach the chain of
command and go directly to the FBI. We'd like to know why those appointments
were canceled." http://transcripts.cnn.com



c.. Editor's note: The 9/11 Commission Report asserts that only three of
the alleged hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to
9/11; Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is no
mention in the Report that the names and photographs of alleged hijacker
Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader Mohamed Atta had been identified by
the Department of Defense antiterrorist program known as Able Danger more
than a year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of
al-Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdar.
http://www.foxnews.com. See also Rep. Curt Weldon, Lt. Col. Anthony
Shaffer, Capt. Scott J. Phillpott, Major Erik Kleinsmith, and James D.
Smith.



d.. Bio: http://www.fbi.gov/libref/directors/freeh.htm
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Edward L. Peck - Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism
under Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence
Programs at the State Department. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to
Iraq (1977 - 1980). 32-year veteran of the Foreign Service.
a.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article

Morton Goulder - Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and
Warning under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter (1973 - 1977). Founder of
Sanders Associates.
a.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article
Marcus Raskin, JD - Former member of the special staff of the National
Security Council in President Kennedy's Administration. Senior Fellow and
Professor of Policy Studies, George Washington University. Co-founder and
Senior Fellow of the Institute for Policy Studies. Advisor to the Episcopal
Urban Bishops. Former member of the Presidential Commission on Education
and advisor to the Bureau of the Budget and the Office of Science and
Technology in the Executive Office of the President. Author, co-author and
editor of more than 20 books on national security and domestic affairs,
including The Four Freedoms under Siege: The Clear and Present Danger from
Our National Security State (2006), In Democracy's Shadow: The Secret World
of National Security (2005), Liberalism (2003), Visions and Revisions:
Reflections on Culture and Democracy at the End of the Century (1998),
Abolishing the War System (1992), The Common Good: Its Politics, Policies,
and Philosophy (1986), The Politics of National Security (1979).
a.. Endorsement of The New Pearl Harbor: "This is an important,
extraordinarily well-reasoned and provocative book that should be widely
read. Griffin raises disturbing questions that deserve thoughtful and
truthful answers from our government."
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/sveniot/nph/
Joseph C. Wilson IV - Retired diplomat of the U.S. Foreign Service,
specializing in Africa. Rose to the position of Special Assistant to
President Bill Clinton and Senior Director for African Affairs, National
Security Council. Former Political Adviser to Commander in Chief, U.S.
Armed Forces, Europe. Former U.S. Ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and
Príncipe. Acting ambassador to Baghdad when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990.
22-year Foreign Service career 1976 - 1998. In February 2002, he
investigated reports of Iraq's attempt to buy uranium from Niger for the
George W. Bush administration. Husband of Valerie Plame, a covert CIA
operative, specializing in weapons of mass destruction, whose identity was
revealed to reporters by members of the Bush administration. In October
2003, Wilson received the Ron Ridenhour Prize for Truth-Telling from the
Fertel Foundation and the Nation Institute.
a.. Interview with Citizens for Legitimate Government 7/6/05:

CLG: I can't let this moment pass without asking you about 9/11 and the
Bush Administration. Do you notice any oddities about how the Bush
Administration handled the events, the aftermath or the investigation of
9/11? Do you see any holes in the government's explanation of events?

Joseph Wilson: I have obviously followed the inquiries into 9/11 and I
know Dick Clarke and Rand Beers very well but I am not an expert. I look to
the "Jersey Girls" [Kristen Breitweiser, Patty Casazza, Lorie Van Auken, and
Mindy Kleinberg] who have so assiduously pushed the case in the memory of
their late husbands, for real understanding. I have great admiration for
them and for what they have done. They are not satisfied, so neither am I.
http://www.legitgov.org



b.. Bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Morgan Reynolds, PhD - Chief Economist, U.S. Department of Labor under
George W. Bush 2001 - 2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center
at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Economics,
Texas A&M University.
a.. Video 6/2/06: "I first began to suspect that 9/11 was in inside job
when the Bush-Cheney Administration invaded Iraq. . We can prove that the
government's story is false." http://video.goo



b.. Essay 6/9/05: "It is hard to exaggerate the importance of a scientific
debate over the cause(s) of the collapse of the twin towers [each 1300+ feet
tall, 110 stories] and building 7 [610 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by
an airplane]. If the official wisdom on the collapses is wrong, as I believe
it is, then policy based on such erroneous engineering analysis is not
likely [to] prove to be sound." http://www.l...
Paul Craig Roberts, PhD - Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under
Ronald Reagan, "Father of Reaganomics", Former Associate Editor of the Wall
Street Journal. Currently Chairman of the Institute for Political Economy
and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. Former William E. Simon
chair in political economy, Center for Strategic and International Studies,
Georgetown University. Former Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution,
Stanford University. Author or co-author of several books on economics and
politics, including; The Supply-Side Revolution (1985), Alienation and the
Soviet Economy: The Collapse of the Socialist Era (1990), The Soviet Union
After Perestroika (1991), The Capitalist Revolution in Latin America (2003).
a.. Endorsement of 9/11 and American Empire (Vol I) - Intellectuals Speak
Out: "This is the most important book of our time. Distinguished national
and international scientists and scholars present massive evidence that the
9/11 Commission Report is a hoax and that the 9/11 "terrorist attack" has
been manipulated to serve a hegemonic agenda in the Middle East. The book's
call for a truly independent panel of experts to be empowered to bring out
the true facts must be heeded or Americans will never again live under
accountable government." http://www.interlinkbooks.com



b.. Essay 8/16/06: "We know that it is strictly impossible for any
building, much less steel columned buildings, to "pancake" at free fall
speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official
explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info



c.. Essay 2/6/06: "There are not many editors eager for writers to explore
the glaring defects of the 9/11 Commission Report. One would think that if
the report could stand analysis, there would not be a taboo against calling
attention to the inadequacy of its explanations." http://www.counterpunc



d.. Bio: http://www.vdare.com/roberts/bio.htm
Catherine Austin Fitts - Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W.
Bush. Former Managing Director and Member of the Board of Wall Street
investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co
a.. Audio Interview 9/9/04: Regarding 9/11 "The official story could not
possibly have happened... It's not possible. It's not operationally
feasible... The Commission was a whitewash." (About 45 minutes into the
file.) http://157



b.. Essay 3/22/04: "The first category of people who benefited were those
who are guilty and complicit in designing, implementing and financing the
9-11 operation. On such a sophisticated and successful covert operation, the
people responsible would have had budgets and financing and would have
organized the operation to maximize their political and financial benefits."
http://globalresearch.ca



c.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



d.. Bio: http://www.solari.com/about/ca_fitts.html
William Bergman, MA, MBA - Former Economist and Senior Analyst, Federal
Reserve Bank of Chicago 1990 - 2004. In 2003 - 2004, he was assigned to
investigate terrorism-related money laundering.
a.. Essay Curious Coincidences of 2001: Following the 9/11 Money Trail
1/4/06: "On p. 172 of the final [9/11 Commission] report, after discussing
money laundering issues, the commission concluded, "To date, the U.S.
government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for
the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately, the question is of little practical
significance."

This rather ridiculous statement suggests that some of the biggest bones
may be buried in the financial area. Examples include wire transfers from
Pakistan to Mohamed Atta in Florida bank accounts in mid-2001, a spike in
U.S. currency growth in July and August 2001, suspicious activity reporting
by financial institutions in July and August 2001, and the commission's
misleading description of the emphasis on counterterrorism in anti-money
laundering initiatives.

As early as October 2001, government investigative work and media reports
publicly suggested that Mohamed Atta had been receiving wire transfers in
bank accounts in Florida in the year before 9/11. Some of those transfers
were reported to have been arranged by people linked to Pakistani
intelligence services as well as al-Qaeda.

One of those reportedly involved in making the transfers [General Mahmoud
Ahmed] left his position as Director of the Pakistani intelligence service
soon after September 11. This person happened to be visiting Washington the
week before 9/11, and was having breakfast with leaders of the Senate and
House Intelligence Committees on the very morning of 9/11 - leaders of the
subsequent Congressional Joint Inquiry into the events of September 11.

A complete discussion of what we know about these transfers, whether these
transfers were or were not made, and if they were, who arranged them and
how, would seem to be a critical element of any full and complete
investigation. Yet, amazingly, and yet, perhaps not so amazingly, they went
unmentioned in the 9/11 commission's final report. ...

Under-explored financial issues relating to 9/11 appear to be part of a
broader, significant problem. The 585-page final report of the 9/11
Commission is extensively footnoted and superficially impressive. Many
people worked long and hard on it. However, in a statement following the
Able Danger revelations several months ago, members of the September 11th
Advocates (the above-noted victim families group) aptly described the report
as a "hollow failure." Unanswered questions pointing to serious issues
abound, and in a variety of areas." http://www.911citizenswatch.org [For
more information on the September 11th Advocates, see Kristen Breitweiser,
Patty Casazza, Monica Gabrielle, Mindy Kleinberg, and Lorie Van Auken.]



b.. Editor's note: Despite the finding of the Joint House-Senate Select
Intelligence Committee's 2002 Report (p.415) of "sources of foreign support
for some of the September 11 hijackers", the 9/11 Commission Report (p. 172)
states, "Similarly, we have seen no evidence that any foreign government --
or government official -- supplied any funding." For related information,
see Michael Meacher, Paul Zarembka, Ernst Welteke.
John Loftus - Former Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations,
U.S. Department of Justice under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan.
Former U.S. Army Intelligence officer. Currently author and frequent media
commentator on terrorism and intelligence services.
a.. Article 9/6/03: "The information provided by European intelligence
services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for
either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence."
http://www.guardian.co.



b.. Bio: http://www.harrywalker.com
George Kenney - Former career Foreign Service Officer, serving as Yugoslav
desk officer at the State Department headquarters in Washington, DC.
Resigned his commission in 1991 over US policy towards the Yugoslav
conflict. Then served as consultant in residence at the Carnegie Endowment
for International Peace. Currently consultant and commentator on foreign
affairs and current events.
a.. Audio interview of James Fetzer 2/25/06 - "I must admit it's difficult
for me, as a former bureaucrat, to imagine that people within the US
government could pull off a successful conspiracy. On the other hand, I
cannot believe, much as I might like to, the standard account of 9/11."
http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/257176

Fred Burks - Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W.
Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries
of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department
career.
a.. Essay: "How is it possible that our military's highly touted
missile detections systems could not locate Flight 77 in the 42 minutes it
was known to be lost before it crashed into the heart of the defense system
of the U.S.? .

An even bigger question is why isn't our media asking these questions?
Why isn't our military spending many millions of dollars to find out why
military defense systems failed on 9/11? Why is it that the 9/11 commission
budget was far less than the budget allotted to the Challenger Disaster or
even the Monika Lewinsky affair?" http://www.wanttoknow.info/911star



b.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article
Post by Vandar
J. Michael Springman - Former career Foreign Service Officer with the
State Department and the International Foreign Trade Administration of the
Commerce Department. Former Consular Officer in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia,
where he supervised the issuance of visas. 20-year Federal Government
career.
a.. Video of Speech to National Press Club 6/10/02: "I used to be in
charge of the visa section at the CIA's Consulate in Jeddah. ... There for a
year and a half I issued visas to terrorists recruited by the CIA and its
asset Osama Bin Laden. ... Fifteen of the nineteen people who allegedly flew
airplanes into buildings in the United States got their visas from the same
CIA Consulate at Jeddah." http://youtube.com



b.. BBC Interview 11/6/01: "In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by
high level State Dept officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants.
These were, essentially, people who had no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to
their own country. I complained bitterly at the time there. I returned to
the US, I complained to the State Dept here, to the General Accounting
Office, to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and to the Inspector General's
office. I was met with silence. ...

What I was protesting was, in reality, an effort to bring recruits,
rounded up by Osama Bin Laden, to the US for terrorist training by the CIA.
They would then be returned to Afghanistan to fight against the
then-Soviets." http://news.bbc.co.uk



c.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



d.. Bio: http://www.springmannslaw.com/Overview.sht
Daniel Ellsberg, PhD - Former Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary
of Defense. Former State Department envoy to Viet Nam. While working for the
government, Ellsberg attained the ultimate civil service grade of GS-18,
equivalent to a Major General. Former U.S. Marine Corps officer. Former
military analyst for the Rand Corporation. Most well known for leaking the
Pentagon Papers to the New York Times in 1971.
a.. Interview 7/14/06: Regarding 9/11 "There is no question in my mind,
that there is enough evidence to justify a very comprehensive and hard
hitting investigation of the kind we have not seen. With subpoenas, general
questioning of people, releasing a lot of documents. There's no question
that very serious questions have been raised about how much they knew before
hand and how much involvement there may have been." http://www.infowars



b.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



c.. Bio: http://www.ellsberg.net/content/view/14/27/
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Van
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Daniel Ellsberg, PhD - Former Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary
of Defense. Former State Department envoy to Viet Nam. While working for the
government, Ellsberg attained the ultimate civil service grade of GS-18,
equivalent to a Major General. Former U.S. Marine Corps officer. Former
military analyst for the Rand Corporation. Most well known for leaking the
Pentagon Papers to the New York Times in 1971.
a.. Interview 7/14/06: Regarding 9/11 "There is no question in my mind,
that there is enough evidence to justify a very comprehensive and hard
hitting investigation of the kind we have not seen. With subpoenas, general
questioning of people, releasing a lot of documents. There's no question
that very serious questions have been raised about how much they knew before
hand and how much involvement there may have been." http://www.infowars



b.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



c.. Bio: http://www.ellsberg.net/content/view/14/27/
Robin Hordon - Former FAA Air Traffic Controller at the Boston Air Route
Traffic Control Center, located in Nashua, NH, 1970 - 1981. Former
Certified Commercial Pilot. Former Certified Flight Instructor and
Certified Ground Instructor. After leaving the FAA, he had a 12-year career
in the field of comedy ending up as artistic coordinator for "Catch A Rising
Star" in Harvard Square in Cambridge, MA.
a.. Statement to this website 4/10/07: "I knew within hours of the attacks
on 9/11/2001 that it was an inside job. Based on my 11-year experience as
an FAA Air Traffic Controller in the busy Northeast corridor, including
hundreds of hours of training, briefings, air refuelings, low altitude
bombing drills, being part of huge military exercises, daily military
training exercises, interacting on a routine basis directly with NORAD radar
personnel, and based on my own direct experience dealing with in-flight
emergency situations, including two instances of hijacked commercial
airliners, I state unequivocally; There is absolutely no way that four
large commercial airliners could have flown around off course for 30 to 60
minutes on 9/11 without being intercepted and shot completely out of the sky
by our jet fighters unless very highly placed people in our government and
our military wanted it to happen.

It is important for people to understand that scrambling jet fighters to
intercept aircraft showing the signs of experiencing "IN-FLIGHT EMERGENCIES"
such as going off course without authorization, losing a transponder signal
and/or losing radio contact is a common and routine task executed jointly
between the FAA and NORAD controllers. The entire "national defense-first
responder" intercept system has many highly-trained civilian and military
personnel who are committed and well-trained to this task. FAA and NORAD
continuously monitor our skies and fighter planes and pilots are on the
ready 24/7 to handle these situations. Jet fighters typically intercept any
suspect plane over the United States within 10 - 15 minutes of notification
of a problem.

This type of "immediate, high speed, high priority and emergency" scramble
had been happening regularly approximately 75 - 150 times per year for ten
years. ...

I believe that 9/11 was what is known as a "False Flag Operation" in which
a country inflicts casualties upon itself, and then blames it on an enemy
that they want to go to war against. It is one more instance in the United
States' long history of using "False Flag Operations" and blatant propaganda
to ramp-up hostile emotions towards an enemy in a population otherwise
resistant to going to war." Link to full statement and expanded bio



b.. Article 3/12/07: "When it became clear that there hadn't been a
systems failure of any kind on the morning of September 11th, Hordon was
certain that something had gone terribly wrong within the upper echelons of
authority. A pilot (third level air carrier) as well as an ATC, he is well
versed on in-flight emergency protocol. He is also adamant that if these
procedures had been followed on 9/11 not one of the hijacked planes would
have reached their targets.

"I'm sorry but American 11 should have been intercepted over southwest
Connecticut-bang, done deal." ...

The unfathomable delays seen in military action on 9/11 are inconceivable
to those who have painstakingly investigated the matter -- and for a man who
worked for years keeping air travel over the U.S. safe. ...

"I think we all have to agree that, one way or another, the U.S. military
was involved in the attacks. The advantage that Rumsfeld had is that he can
classify, reshape, make available, make unavailable any information that he
wants, at any time and deny that information to the public for any reason,
especially national security." http://www.prisonplanet.com
Philip J. Berg, Esquire - Former Deputy Attorney General, State of
Pennsylvania.
a.. Article 10/29/04: "The official story of what actually took place on
9-11 is a lie." http://www.americanfreepress.net



b.. Statement 1/4/07: "Berg continued there is overwhelming evidence that:
"Bush and his cronies made 9/11 happen or let it happen. And, if they let
it happen, then they made it happen. Either way, they are responsible; and
more important, they have completely and unequivocally covered-it-up!" MS
Word doc at http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/PR_01042007.doc



c.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article.php



d.. Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering
the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."



e.. Bio: http://www.911forthetruth.com
General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) - Former Commanding General of U.S.
European Command, which included all American military activities in the 89
countries and territories of Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.
Additionally, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), which granted him
overall command of NATO military forces in Europe 1997 - 2001. Awarded
Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart for his service in Viet Nam and
numerous subsequent medals and citations. Graduated valedictorian of his
class at West Point.
a.. Video interview ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos 3/5/06: "I
think when you look at this country, right now, we need a 2-party system
that works. We need Congress to do its job. We need real investigation of
some of the abuses of authority that are apparently going on at the
Executive branch. ... We've never finished the investigation of 9/11 and
whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it
had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I've seen that for a long
time." http://securingamerica.com/node/692



b.. Bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark
Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) - Former Commanding
General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984. Also
commanded the U.S. Army's Electronic Research and Development Command and
the U.S. Army's Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery
Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army
career.
a.. Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge
of the Army's Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical
Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment
from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I
look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon.
And I said, 'The plane does not fit in that hole'. So what did hit the
Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.und



b.. Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
Colonel Nelson, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, and
Steve DeChiaro.



c.. Bio: http://www.canadiansub.com/Board
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:11:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) - Deputy Assistant Secretary of
Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam
veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by
President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments
Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the
Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military Historian and Deputy
Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center,
Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994.
a.. Article 7/10/06: "The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and
Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story
of 9/11 - calling it 'the dog that doesn't hunt.' 'I'm astounded that the
conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and
the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,' he said."
http://www.knowledgedriven



b.. Bio: http://www.firstprinciplespress.org
Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Director of Advanced Space
Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force
fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear
Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical
Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of
Technology. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of
Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.
a.. Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together,
prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a
bunch of hogwash. It's impossible. . There's a second group of facts having
to do with the cover up. . Taken together these things prove that high
levels of our government don't want us to know what happened and who's
responsible..

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And
who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When
you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that
it's highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing
through Dick Cheney.

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and
all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this
massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware
of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that's
much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit
murder." http://video.go



b.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



c.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."



d.. Website: http://www.thepatriots.us
Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Former U.S. Air Force aircraft
accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force
career.
a.. Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never
witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was
accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence
to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of
the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ...

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the
morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000
human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced
in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the
contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept
hidden from public view. .

With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any
unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not
fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available
at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger
airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing
757 as alleged. .

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the
lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and
nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved
in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history."
http://www.physics911.net



b.. Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
General Stubblebine, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg,
and Steve DeChiaro.



c.. Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering
the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."



d.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."
Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Former
Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of
Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security
Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.
a.. Contributor to 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out
8/23/06: Account of Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Pentagon employee and
eyewitness to the events at the Pentagon on 9/11. "I believe the Commission
failed to deeply examine the topic at hand, failed to apply scientific rigor
to its assessment of events leading up to and including 9/11, failed to
produce a believable and unbiased summary of what happened, failed to fully
examine why it happened, and even failed to include a set of unanswered
questions for future research. ...

It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official
government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the rules
of probability or physics. The collapses of the World Trade Center
buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics. ...

There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked [Pentagon]
lawn, where I stood only minutes after the impact. Beyond this strange
absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the
Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner.
This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the
secretary of defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an unfortunate slip of the
tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a
"missile".

... I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane
metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged
building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon. ... all of us staring
at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such debris, but what
we expected to see was not evident.

The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But I
did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole,
no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it
remained standing for 30 or 40 minutes, with the roof line remaining
relatively straight.

The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a
large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a missile
had struck the Pentagon.

... More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11 and
the events leading up to that terrible day."



b.. Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, and
Steve DeChiaro.



c.. Bio: http://militaryweek.com/
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) - Retired U.S. Marine
Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. 21-year Marine
Corps career.
a.. Letter to the Editor 2/5/07: Regarding 9/11 "Our government has been
hijacked by means of a "new Pearl Harbor" and a lot of otherwise good and
decent people who are gullible enough to think that the first three
steel-framed buildings in history fall down because they have some fires
that the fire fighter on the scene said could be knocked down with a couple
of hoses and through which people walked before they were photographed
looking out the holes where the plane hit . One of these - bldg 7, [610 feet
tall, 47 stories] was never hit by a plane and even NIST is ashamed to
advance a reason for its collapse. And, miracle of miracles, these three
buildings just happened to be leased and insured by the same guy who is on
tape saying they decided to "PULL" the last one to fall."
http://www.michigandaily.com



b.. Statement to this website 2/20/07: "This isn't about party, it isn't
about Bush Bashing. It's about our country, our constitution, and our
future. ...

Your countrymen have been murdered and the more you delve into it the more
it looks as though they were murdered by our government, who used it as an
excuse to murder other people thousands of miles away.

If you ridicule others who have sincere doubts and who know factual
information that directly contradicts the official report and who want
explanations from those who hold the keys to our government, and have
motive, means, and opportunity to pull off a 9/11, but you are too lazy or
fearful, or ... to check into the facts yourself, what does that make you?
Scholars for 9/11 truth have developed reams of scientific data. Michael
Ruppert published an exhaustive account of the case from the viewpoint of a
trained investigator. David Ray Griffin provides a context for the
unanswered or badly answered questions that should nag at anyone who
pretends to love this country.

Are you afraid that you will learn the truth and you can't handle it? ...

Do a little research. Google is a wonderful tool.

What does it all add up to? The Commission was, as was the Warren
Commission before it, a dog and pony show ... " Link to full statement



c.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."
Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Retired U.S. Air Force
fighter pilot (F-111, F-15E, F-16, B-1, F-18, Mig-29, and Suu-22). Flew
combat missions over Iraq. Former instructor at the USAF Fighter Weapons
School and NATO's Tactical Leadership Program. 20-year Air Force career.
a.. Statement to this website 3/25/07: "After 4+ years of research since
retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11,
2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that
have infiltrated the highest levels of our government. It is now time to
take our country back.

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 [610 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit
by an airplane] shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were
pre-planned. There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on
fire) over a coffee break. It is also impossible to report the building's
collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned.
Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in
which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the
building collapse."

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military
took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States
against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Just because we have retired
does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is
our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice,
no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer
to do it.

We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath,
and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Those
of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given
us had to trust our leaders. The violation and abuse of that trust is not
only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!"



b.. Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering
the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."



c.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."



d.. Website: http://www.myspace.com/supereagle69
Lt. Col. Jeff Latas, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Former combat fighter pilot
(F-15E and F-111). Former President, U.S. Air Force Accident Investigation
Board. Also served as Pentagon Weapons Requirement Officer and as a member
of the Pentagon's Quadrennial Defense Review. Awarded Distinguish Flying
Cross for Heroism, four Air Medals, four Meritorious Service Medals, and
nine Aerial Achievement Medals. 20-year Air Force career. Currently
commercial airline pilot.
a.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."
Commander Ted Muga, U.S. Navy (ret) - Retired Naval aviator (Grumman E-1
and E-2). Retired Pan-Am commercial airline pilot (Boeing 707 and 727).
a.. Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering
the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."



b.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."
Major Douglas Rokke, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) - Former Director U.S. Army
Depleted Uranium Project. 30-year Army career.
a.. Article 8/19/05: Regarding the impact at the Pentagon on 9/11/2001
"When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of
airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the
projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the
work of a missile. And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a
missile." http://www.rense.com



b.. Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Capt. Wittenberg,
and Steve DeChiaro.
Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force - Former Air Force fighter pilot with
over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines
for 35 years, flying 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777 's. Had
previously flown the actual two United Airlines airplanes that were hijacked
on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the
second plane to hit the WTC).
a.. Article 7/17/05: "The government story they handed us about 9/11 is
total B.S. plain and simple." . Wittenberg convincingly argued there was
absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have "descended 7,000 feet in
two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before
crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall without touching the lawn.".

"For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is
impossible - there is not one chance in a thousand," said Wittenberg,
recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727's to the highly
sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737's through 767's it
took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying."
http://www.arcticbeacon.com



b.. Audio Interview 9/16/04: Regarding Flight 77, which allegedly hit the
Pentagon. "The airplane could not have flown at those speeds which they
said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The
airplane won't go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at
those bank angles. . To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers
with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous...

It's roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all
assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts
after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the
Pentagon. . The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think,
as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile."
http://911underground.com



c.. Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Major Rokke, and
Steve DeChiaro.



d.. Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the
globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to
seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our
main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the
reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are
focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States
Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."
Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army - Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and
NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal
for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet
Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery
Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former
CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services
and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General
Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.
a.. Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric
Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine
engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high
temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11
would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or
fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines,
particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11,
those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical
Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private
pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all
commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from
their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with
Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip
by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon
right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small
slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in
the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not
change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Barbara Honegger, MS - Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval
Postgraduate School, the U.S. Navy's advanced science, technology and
national security affairs university (1995 - present). White House Policy
Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan
(1981 - 1983).
a.. Essay 9/6/06: "The US military, not al Qaeda, had the sustained
access weeks before 9/11 to also plant controlled demolition charges
throughout the superstructures of WTC 1 and WTC 2, and in WTC 7, which
brought down all three buildings on 9/11. ...

A US military plane, not one piloted by al Qaeda, performed the highly
skilled, high?speed 270?degree dive towards the Pentagon that Air Traffic
Controllers on 9/11 were sure was a military plane as they watched it on
their screens. Only a military aircraft, not a civilian plane flown by al
Qaeda, would have given off the "Friendly" signal needed to disable the
Pentagon's anti?aircraft missile batteries as it approached the building.

Only the US military, not al Qaeda, had the ability to break all of its
Standard Operating Procedures to paralyze its own emergency response
system." http://blog.lege

a.. Lt. Col. Stephen L. Butler, EdD, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Former Vice
Chancellor for Student Affairs at the Defense Language Institute. Served as
a B-52 Radar Navigator in the Gulf War. 24-year Air Force career.
a.. Article 6/4/02: "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on
America. He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this
war on terrorism." http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.06E.butler.bush.htm
Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, U.S. Army Reserve - Commander of Special Troops
Battalion, 9th Theater Support Command. Former Chief of the Army's
Controlled HUMINT (Human Intelligence) Program, overseeing Army Intelligence
and Security Command's global controlled HUMINT efforts. A former member of
the Able Danger data mining program that targeted Al Qaeda's global
structure. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery. Fellow, Center for Advanced
Defense Studies. 23-year military intelligence career.
a.. Testimony before the House Armed Services Committee 2/15/06: Regarding
the Able Danger project - "... basic law enforcement investigative
techniques, with 21st Century data mining and analytical tools ... resulted
in the establishment of a new form of intelligence collection - and the
identification of Mohammed Atta and several other of the 9-11 terrorists as
having links to Al Qaeda leadership a full year in advance of the attacks.
...

After contact by two separate members of the ABLE DANGER team, . the 9-11
[Commission] staff refused to perform any in-depth review or investigation
of the issues that were identified to them. . It was their job to do a
thorough investigation of these claims - to not simply dismiss them based on
what many now believe was a "preconceived" conclusion to the 9-11 story they
wished to tell. . I consider this a failure of the 9-11 staff - a failure
that the 9-11 Commissioners themselves were victimized by - and continue to
have perpetrated on them by the staff as is evidenced by their recent,
groundless conclusion that ABLE DANGER's findings were "urban legend".
http://www.abledan



b.. Editor's note: The 9/11 Commission Report asserts that only three of
the alleged hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to
9/11; Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is no
mention in the Report that the names and photographs of alleged hijacker
Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader Mohamed Atta had been identified by
the Department of Defense antiterrorist program known as Able Danger more
than a year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of
al-Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdar.
http://www.foxnews.com. See also Rep. Curt Weldon , Louis Freeh, Capt.
Scott J. Phillpott , Major Erik Kleinsmith, and James D. Smith.



c.. Bio: http://www.c4ads.org/anthony.shaffer
Capt. Scott J. Phillpott, U.S. Navy - Commanding Officer of the
guided-missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf. Former head of the Able Danger data
mining program that targeted Al Qaeda's global structure. Former commanding
officer of the frigate USS Estocin. Former Commanding Officer of the coastal
patrol ship USS Typhoon. U.S. Naval Academy graduate. Awards include the
Legion of Merit, Defense Meritorious Service Medal, three Meritorious
Service Medals, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, two Navy Commendation
Medals, and the Navy Achievement Medal. 23 years of Navy service.
a.. Fox News Article 8/23/05: "I will not discuss this outside of my chain
of command. I have briefed the Department of the Army, the Special
Operations Command and the office of (Undersecretary of Defense for
Intelligence) Dr. Cambone as well as the 9/11 Commission. My story has
remained consistent. Atta was identified by Able Danger in January/February
2000." http://www.foxnews.com



b.. Editor's note: The 9/11 Commission Report asserts that only three of
the alleged hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to
9/11; Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is no
mention in the Report that the names and photographs of alleged hijacker
Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader Mohamed Atta had been identified by
the Department of Defense antiterrorist program known as Able Danger more
than a year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of
al-Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdar.
http://www.foxnews.com. See also Rep. Curt Weldon , Louis Freeh, Lt. Col.
Anthony Shaffer, Major Erik Kleinsmith, and James D. Smith.



c.. Bio: http://www.bcnavyleague.org (page 5)
Major Erik Kleinsmith, U.S. Army - Former Chief of Intelligence, Land
Information Warfare Activity (LIWA). Awarded Meritorious Service Medal,
Army Commendation Medal, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, and the National
Defense Service Medal. 14-year Army career. Currently Project Manager for
Intelligence Analytical Training, Lockheed Martin Company.
a.. Testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee 9/21/05: "Mr.
KLEINSMITH: From March 1999 until February of 2001, I was an active duty
Army Major and the Chief of Intelligence of the Land Information Warfare
Activity. ...

In December of 1999, we were approached by U.S. Special Operations Command
to support Able Danger. ... In the months that followed, we were able to
collect an immense amount of data for analysis that allowed us to map Al
Qaeda as a worldwide threat with a surprisingly significant presence within
the United States.

In approximately April of 2000, from my recollections, our support to Able
Danger became severely restricted and ultimately shut down due to
intelligence oversight concerns. ... I, along with one of my analysts, Chief
Warrant Officer 3 Terri Stephens, were forced to destroy all data, charts,
and other analytical products that we had not already passed on to
SOCOM-related Able Danger. ...

Chairman Arlen SPECTER: Are you in a position to evaluate the credibility
of Captain Phillpott, Colonel Shaffer, Mr. Westphal, Ms. Preisser, or Mr.
J.D. Smith, as to their credibility when they say they saw Mohammed Atta on
the chart?

Mr. KLEINSMITH: Yes, sir. I believe them implicitly from the time that I
had worked with all of them, and everyone you had mentioned was part and I
had contact with during this time. I cannot-

Chairman SPECTER: You had contact with all of them?

Mr. KLEINSMITH: Yes, sir. I cannot corroborate them completely and say
that, yes, they saw it, because I myself do not remember seeing either a
picture or his name on any charts, but I believe them implicitly. When they
say they do, I believe them." http://judiciary.senate.gov



b.. Editor's note: The 9/11 Commission Report asserts that only three of
the alleged hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to
9/11; Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is no
mention in the Report that the names and photographs of alleged hijacker
Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader Mohamed Atta had been identified by
the Department of Defense antiterrorist program known as Able Danger more
than a year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of
al-Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdar.
http://www.foxnews.com. See also Rep. Curt Weldon , Louis Freeh, Lt. Col.
Anthony Shaffer, Capt. Scott J. Phillpott, and James D. Smith.
James D. Smith - Former Able Danger Program Manager for Orion Scientific
Systems, a Department of Defense contractor. Previously at Orion, managed
and performed criminal intelligence support activities within the Gulf
States Initiative (GSI) Program - a joint federal (U.S. Army and National
Guard) and multi-state project (Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and
Mississippi).
a.. Testimony before the House Armed Services Committee 2/15/06: Regarding
the Able Danger data mining program.

Mr. SMITH: "I have recollection of a visual chart that identified
associations of known terrorist Omar Abdul Rahman, within the New York City
geographic area and the name of that particular chart escapes me, but it
was -- we called the Brooklyn Cell.

Mohammed Atta's picture, an association of Rahman, was on the chart. ...
Several of these charts addressing multiple topics were retained by me and
turned over to Representative Curt Weldon. ... I have direct recollection of
the chart because I had a copy up until 2004. ...

At the time, after 9/11 when the pictures were released in newspapers and
I did the compare on the chart, when I saw his picture there, I was
extremely elated and, to anyone that would listen to me, I showed them the
chart that was in my possession.

Rep. Curt WELDON: Mr. Smith, one of the [9/11] commissioners stated
publicly after the story ran in the New York Times, that you couldn't have
had the photograph, because he didn't have a driver's license. Would you
comment on where you got the photograph from?

Mr. SMITH: We were getting the information from Arab sources through Los
Angeles. We were able to get a lot of inside Arabic information. ...

Rep. WELDON: Did anyone from the 9/11 Commission staff ever talk to you,
Mr. Smith?

Mr. SMITH: No, sir. ...

Rep. WELDON: How sure are you that it was Mohammed Atta's name and
picture?

Mr. SMITH: I'm absolutely certain. I used to look at it every morning.

Rep. WELDON: You looked at it every morning. So it wasn't a one time deal?

Mr. SMITH: No, sir.

Rep. WELDON: And was that the chart you think that was given to me that I
gave to the White House?

Mr. SMITH: Yes, sir. It was."
http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/hearing.pdf



b.. Editor's note: The 9/11 Commission Report asserts that only three of
the alleged hijackers were known to U.S. intelligence agencies prior to
9/11; Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, and Khalid al-Mihdar. There is no
mention in the Report that the names and photographs of alleged hijacker
Marwan al-Shehhi and alleged ring-leader Mohamed Atta had been identified by
the Department of Defense antiterrorist program known as Able Danger more
than a year prior to 9/11 and that they were known to be affiliates of
al-Qaida. Able Danger also identified Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdar.
http://www.foxnews.com. See also Rep. Curt Weldon , Louis Freeh, Lt. Col.
Anthony Shaffer, Captain Scott J. Phillpott, and Major Erik Kleinsmith.
Major John M. Newman, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) - Former Executive Assistant to
the Director of the National Security Agency. Former military attaché in
China. 21-year career in U.S. Army Intelligence. Currently, professor of
history and international relations at the University of Maryland.
a.. Congressional briefing testimony 7/22/05: "It falls to me this morning
to bring to your attention the story of Saeed Sheikh, whose full name is
Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, and his astonishing rise to power in Al Qaeda, his
crucial role in 9/11, which is completely, utterly, missing from the 9/11
Commission report.

The 9/11 Commission which studied US intelligence and law enforcement
community performance in great detail, (maybe not so much great detail, but
they did), neglected to cover the community's performance during the weeks
following the attacks to determine who was responsible for them, not a word
about that in the Report.

The Report does discuss the immediate US responses but the immediate
investigation is never addressed, and anyone who has closely studied the
post-9/11 investigation knows that the first breakthrough came two weeks
into the investigation when the money transfers from the United Arab
Emirates to the hijackers were uncovered.

Furthermore, if you have studied that investigation, you know there is no
disputing that while investigators may have struggled with the identity of
the paymaster, they were clear about one thing, he was Al Qaeda's finance
chief. For this reason alone you have to ask why the 9/11 Commission Report
never mentions the finance chief's role as the 9/11 paymaster."
http://www.vt911.org
Major Scott Ritter, U.S. Marine Corps - Former Marine Corps Intelligence
Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special
Commission in Iraq 1991 - 1998.
a.. Video 7/22/06: "I, like the others, are frustrated by the 9/11
Commission Report, by the lack of transparency on the part of the United
States government, both in terms of the executive branch and the legislative
branch when it comes to putting out on the table all facts known to the 9/11
case." http://video.go
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-16 06:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
9/11 FACT SHEET
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
This should be fun...
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD, U.S. Army - Former U.S. Army Intelligence
Officer
a.. Statement to this website 9/19/06: "I knew from September 18, 2001,
that the official story about 9/11 was false. ... [A]nomalies poured in
rapidly: the hijackers' names appearing in none of the published flight
passenger lists, BBC reports of stolen identities of the alleged hijackers
or the alleged hijackers being found alive, the obvious demolitions of WTC 1
and 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and WTC 7 [610 feet tall, 47
stories, and not hit by an airplane], the lack of identifiable Boeing 757
wreckage at the Pentagon ... Link to full statement



b.. Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering
the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."
Capt. Eric H. May, U.S. Army (ret) - Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.
Former inspector and interpreter for the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty
team.
a.. Essay 9/11 and Non-investigation: "As a former Army officer, my
tendency immediately after 911 was to rally 'round the colors and defend the
country against what I then thought was an insidious, malicious all-Arab
entity called Al-Qaida. In fact, in April of 2002, I attempted to
reactivate my then-retired commission to return to serve my country in its
time of peril. ...

Now I view the 911 event as Professor David Griffin, author of The New
Pearl Harbor, views it: as a matter that implies either

A) passive participation by the Bush White House through a deliberate
stand-down of proper defense procedures that (if followed) would have led US
air assets to a quick identification and confrontation of the passenger
aircraft that impacted WTC 1 and WTC 2, or worse ...

B) active execution of a plot by rogue elements of government, starting
with the White House itself, in creating a spectacle of destruction that
would lead the United States into an invasion of the Middle East ..."
http://mujca.com/captain.htm



b.. Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. . As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
a.. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer
b.. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
c.. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
d.. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article
Wayne Madsen - Former U.S. Navy Intelligence Officer, specialist in
electronic surveillance and security. Formerly assigned to the National
Security Agency and the State Department. Currently, investigative
journalist, nationally distributed columnist, and author. Senior Fellow,
Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-partisan privacy public
advocacy group in Washington, DC. Frequent media commentator on terrorism
and security matters. Author of Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa
1993-1999 (1999), co-author of America's Nightmare: The Presidency of George
Bush II (2006), Jaded Tasks: Big Oil, Black Ops & Brass Plates (2006), The
Handbook of Personal Data Protection (1992).
a.. Speech 11/11/06 : "After five years of talking to many individuals in
the intelligence community, in the military, foreign intelligence agencies,
and a whole host of other people, people from the air traffic control
community, the FAA, I came to the conclusion that after five years what we
saw happen on that morning of September 11, 2001, was the result of a
highly-compartmentalized covert operation to bring about a fascist coup in
this country. ...

These people need to be brought to justice, if not by our own Congress,
then by an international tribunal in the Hague, in the Netherlands. Bush,
Blair, Rumsfeld, Cheney should be sitting in the same dockets where
Milosevic and the Croatia-Serbia war criminals sat." http://video.google.com



b.. Endorsement of The New Pearl Harbor: "David Griffin's The New Pearl
Harbor belongs on the book shelves of all those who, in any way, doubt the
veracity of the accounts presented to the public by the Bush administration
concerning the worst terrorist attack in America's history. The facts
presented in this book are disturbing - and they should be. Griffin's book
goes a long way in answering the age-old question inherent in American
political scandals: What did the President know, and when did he know it?"
http://www.interlinkbooks.com



c.. Bio: http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/aboutus.php
David L. Griscom, PhD - Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval
Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service. Fellow
of the American Physical Society. Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997). Visiting
professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne,
France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003). Adjunct Professor
of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005).
Winner of the 1993 N.F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of
Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the
Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus
Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL.
Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is
highly cited by his peers. Officially credited with largest number of
papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL
between 1973 and 1988.
a.. Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid,
highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why
the Official Account Cannot Be True: This scholarly work, rich in
eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World
Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 [610
feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an airplane] were brought down by
explosives.

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time,
expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics
of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed
journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics.

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of
paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official"
assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the
available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the
illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the
Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of
law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215).

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more
than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer
to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman



b.. Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering
the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."



c.. Bio: http://impactglassman.blogspot.com/
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one
party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, credible people from across the political spectrum question
9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals, and
prominent centrists.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families
to question the events of that day?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story
and are demanding that the truth be disclosed.
Even though it already has been.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked
tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become
victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.
What article?
Post by downgoesfrazier
4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11,
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
Some of them are.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith.
No it isn't.
Post by downgoesfrazier
That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.
And the relevance of Christian theologians (namely David Griffin) is?...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed,
prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of
9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to
our world.
It's already been uncovered.
Post by downgoesfrazier
5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
No. It's a partisanship problem.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the
government's version of 9/11.
And some very prominent psychiatrists question those very prominent
psychologists.
Name the psychologists.
Post by downgoesfrazier
6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American,
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
It's a symptom.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot
and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love
their country.
Yet people who question the "truth movement" are Bush loving, kool-aid
drinking shills who should be taken out back and shot.
Post by downgoesfrazier
7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important
issues facing America today?
Absolutely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing
our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.
Like how Fetzer is going to pay his mortgage.
Post by downgoesfrazier
8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not
intentionally.
Depends. Concerning 9/11, it is tru that they would never do such a thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western
governments -- have done so before.
Here it comes folks... Northwoods...
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry
out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a
justification for invading Cuba.
That's a flat out lie by the "truth" movement. The scenarios presented in
the Northwoods documents involved the killing of ZERO people.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And a government informant has
stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but
that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
There are many other examples of other governments killing their own
people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as
well.
You haven't even offered one example.
Post by downgoesfrazier
As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens
die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near
ground zero,
Notice how the "truth" movement likes to present it as if the government
was sitting in a dark room wringing their hands and twisting their
mustaches saying "we'll let them breathe toxic air... that'll show 'em" as
if doing so has any purpose.
Post by downgoesfrazier
after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk,
Speculation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks.
Lie! Big fat fucking lie!
Post by downgoesfrazier
The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war,
causing thousands of American deaths.
Completely unrelated.
Post by downgoesfrazier
9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, it was not unexpected.
Yes, it was.
Post by downgoesfrazier
10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't
it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11
attacks?
No
Post by downgoesfrazier
It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games,
including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of
fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented
the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding
against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated
people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could
not do their job.
Another lie the "truth" movement needs to tell in order to dupe people
into paying Fetzer's mortgage.
NORAD was never charged with protecting skyscrapers from domestic flights.
What 9/11 revealed was huge flaw in the system, not some mythical sinister
plot to outsmart the entire military by a super secret government body.
Post by downgoesfrazier
11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have
been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the
beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, and most likely.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have
pulled it off.
Notice how the "truth" movement offers no detail as to how it reaches that
conclusion.
Government officials, military officials, workers in the buildings,
passengers in the planes, numerous ATCs, rescue workers, and miscellaneous
other citizens would not only all have to be in on it, they would have to
execute the most complicated plan in the history of mankind absolutely
perfectly and then tell NO ONE about it.
If three people know a secret, it's not a secret for long.
Post by downgoesfrazier
12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept
the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11
attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very
worst -- incompetence?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and
appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S.
faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.
Completely unrelated to the question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close
vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable
before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were
the real cause of 9/11?
Which vulnerabilities would those be? NORAD now has the ability to monitor
domestic air traffic real-time. There isn't much else they can do until
something actually happens.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts
surrounding 9/11.
Such as?
? Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true
Post by downgoesfrazier
facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and
change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official
story?
Name these covered-up facts.
Post by downgoesfrazier
And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain
people for 9/11.
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do
innocent people plant fake evidence?
Does the "truth" movement ever actually answer a question with anything
falsifiable?
Post by downgoesfrazier
13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken
timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?
There is nothing to solve.
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple,
completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11 (also listen to
this interview).
Notice how the "truth" movement calls it a confession, as if to imply that
NORAD was admitting to a crime.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to
scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame
other agencies made no sense.
According to the "truth" movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy
theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory,
Lie
Post by downgoesfrazier
and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.
Name 'em.
Post by downgoesfrazier
15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to
bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Right
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, that is not true.
Yes, it is true. Agin the "truth" movement just makes says "no" and moves
on, without offering any reasonable alternative explanation.
Post by downgoesfrazier
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11,
why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when
crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a
"Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very
overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.
For some clinically insane reason, the "truth" movement doesn't think that
the collapse of the Twin Towers through explosives alone would have been
shocking enough.
Post by downgoesfrazier
17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't
the media have been "all over it"?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time
covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Yes. If it's not news, the news agencies aren't going to cover it.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. In fact many journalists are warning that the true story is not
being reported. See this announcement and this video. See also this
interview with award-winning journalists about censorship in American media.
So the American media is being curtailed, but "a small handful of people
could have pulled it off."
The "truth" movement constantly contradicts itself.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Indeed, referring to an unrelated topic, a leading MSNBC news
commentator has said that there is self-censorship in the American media,
Name him and provide the context of his statement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire
ocean is in trouble .... You cannot say: By the way, there's something
wrong with our .... system".
You lying little sack of shit. That statement was made in Rolling Stone
magazine by Keith Olbermann. He was talking about THE ELECTION.
Let's take out your disingenous "..." and see what the real quote is.
After all, the "..." replaced ONE WORD.
'You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in
trouble,' he said. 'You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong
with our electoral system.'
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/4
There's your fucking "truth" movement".
Post by downgoesfrazier
18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement"
which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11
thing?
Yes
Post by downgoesfrazier
No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence
which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one
or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.
Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their
thinking,
Like every disingenous piece of shit in the self-proclaimed "truth"
movement.
Post by downgoesfrazier
and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under
scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who
are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the
movement.
By providing full quotes IN CONTEXT and actually speaking with relevant
experts. How dare those Bush-loving, kool-aid drinking shills do such a
thing.
Post by downgoesfrazier
This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the
government.
The "truth" movement is full of lying pieces of shit who deserve nothing
mroe than ridicule and derision by every sane member of every civilized
society. They earned it.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-17 03:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Fucking liar
http://patriotsquestion911.com/

THE NAMES ARE ALL LISTED FOR YOU VANDAR SHILL, WHY DONT YOU REFUTE EACH AND
EVERY ONE.

Senior Military, Intelligence, Law Enforcement,
and Government Officials Question
the 9/11 Commission Report
Many well known and respected senior U.S. military officers, intelligence
services and law enforcement veterans, and government officials have
expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report or have made
public statements that contradict the Report. Several even allege
government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11. This website is a
collection of their statements. It is not an organization and it should be
made clear that none of these individuals are affiliated with this website.

Listed below are statements by more than 90 of these senior officials. Their
collective voices give credibility to the claim that the 9/11 Commission
Report is tragically flawed. These individuals cannot be simply dismissed as
irresponsible believers in some 9/11 conspiracy theory. Their sincere
concern, backed by their decades of service to their country, demonstrate
that criticism of the Report is not irresponsible, illogical, nor disloyal,
per se. In fact, it can be just the opposite. (continued below)
Vandar
2007-04-17 02:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Fucking liar
Point out the lie and I'll address your post.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-17 18:43:01 UTC
Permalink
You said there are no names of people that question the administrations
version of 9/11

I named hundreds and you disappear. Convenient fuck.
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Fucking liar
Point out the lie and I'll address your post.
Vandar
2007-04-17 18:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by downgoesfrazier
You said there are no names of people that question the administrations
version of 9/11
Where? I said "Name 'em". I never said they don't exist.
Post by downgoesfrazier
I named hundreds and you disappear. Convenient fuck.
You nomed no one. You provided a link to a site that lists bunch of
people who want a new investigation and a minute few who say the
government did it

I can't disappear. I am never here.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Fucking liar
Point out the lie and I'll address your post.
downgoesfrazier
2007-04-18 03:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Dumb fuck can't read the hundreds of names posted in this thread.
Just pretend they don't exist asswipe. You're as transparent as Cheney and
the rest of the ignorant fucks that pretend the thousands of pieces of
evidence showing complicity doesn't exist.

Nobody but your band of monkeys that double post whatever you say believes
you.
Just a minute few eh, how about 1200, not very minute dickwad.

The names are in this thread stop ignoring them asswipe.
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
You said there are no names of people that question the administrations
version of 9/11
Where? I said "Name 'em". I never said they don't exist.
Post by downgoesfrazier
I named hundreds and you disappear. Convenient fuck.
You nomed no one. You provided a link to a site that lists bunch of people
who want a new investigation and a minute few who say the government did
it
I can't disappear. I am never here.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Fucking liar
Point out the lie and I'll address your post.
Vandar
2007-04-18 15:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by downgoesfrazier
Dumb fuck can't read the hundreds of names posted in this thread.
There aren't hundreds of names posted in this thread.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Just pretend they don't exist asswipe. You're as transparent as Cheney and
the rest of the ignorant fucks that pretend the thousands of pieces of
evidence showing complicity doesn't exist.
Name the "Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians" who think there was government complicity.

Hell, I'll make it easy for you: Name 3.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Nobody but your band of monkeys that double post whatever you say believes
you.
I'm not here to make people believe me, and neither are you.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Just a minute few eh, how about 1200, not very minute dickwad.
C'mon, liar, name THREE "present and former high-level military leaders
and politicians" who think there was government complicity.
Post by downgoesfrazier
The names are in this thread stop ignoring them asswipe.
There are 5 names in this thread: Bill Doyle, Bob McIlvaine, Steven
Jones, Kevin Ryan, and Richard Gage.
None of them are "present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians" who think there was government complicity.


Since you've failed miserably in pointing out the lie you claim I said,
thus proving that you are more than willing to lie in order to make your
point, you can at least try to name THREE of the "Numerous present and
former high-level military leaders and politicians" you claim support
government complicity... can't you?
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
You said there are no names of people that question the administrations
version of 9/11
Where? I said "Name 'em". I never said they don't exist.
Post by downgoesfrazier
I named hundreds and you disappear. Convenient fuck.
You nomed no one. You provided a link to a site that lists bunch of people
who want a new investigation and a minute few who say the government did
it
I can't disappear. I am never here.
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
Post by Vandar
Post by downgoesfrazier
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
That's not a frequently asked question.
Post by downgoesfrazier
No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and
politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.
Name 'em.
Fucking liar
Point out the lie and I'll address your post.
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