Discussion:
Comey letter: FBI investigating emails that might mention Hillary Clinton
(too old to reply)
abelard
2016-10-31 09:49:48 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 09:44:49 +0000, James Harris
On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 08:58:04 +0000
I don't disagree that Clinton comes with a lot of baggage but I bear
in mind that she has been under scrutiny for something like 30 years.
No one can behave perfectly in all that time. It is simply not
reasonable to expect that she has not made mistakes. All people do.
Then the question is: is it possible for a holder of high office in the
United States, and a presidential candidate for same, to set up an email
server outside government facilities, use it to carry and store secret
and confidential government material and then order it to be wiped clean
*by* *mistake*? "Oooops, I didn't mean to do that, my hand slipped."
Do you have a link to a transcript of what she said, or a letter that
she wrote about it?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/22/clinton-lectured-state-dept-staff-on-cybersecurity-in-2010-video.html
"Despite conducting her own government business through a personal
“homebrew” server while secretary of state, Hillary Clinton is seen in
a newly obtained video lecturing her staff of their “special duty” to
recognize the importance of cybersecurity.

“The real key to cybersecurity rests with you,” Clinton says in the
2010 video"
--
www.abelard.org
abelard
2016-11-01 14:36:52 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:21:08 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:54:53 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 10:53:38 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:12:17 +0000, James Harris
...
How can anyone possibly think that putting such a person in the
White House is a good idea? That is a genuine question. Trump may be a
break from the cabal and I get that people desperately want a change.
But he is far from up to the job. AFAICS he is just not credible and
could well be dangerous.
what do you suppose he can or will do that is 'dangerous'
please list examples
What could POTUS do that's dangerous? Um, let me see! ;-)
i see no examples
Well, for arguably the world's most powerful man, the mind boggles as to
what he could get up to.
There's appointments of officials (internal and external to the
government) based on who he thinks likes him. There is international
relations conducted based on who he likes and who he doesn't like. There
are trade arrangements based on his whims. There is surrounding himself
with yes men and women who will stroke his ego. There are various forms
of retribution against all manner of organisations and individuals based
on who has upset him. There are making up and promoting stories about
staff and fellow politicians. There are attempts to interfere in the
justice system. There are fights with those who oppose him - and who
knows how far that would go. And there is possibly a danger of him
becoming increasingly paranoid, isolated, angry and troublesome.
that all sounds like politics as usual...
they always appoint their favourites...it's human nature...
and it's the people they trust...
'Liary is described as paranoid...
pootin is paranoid
brown the clown was paranoid...
most people in such orgs creep around the boss...
do you believe loretta lynch is there on merit?
do you believe o'barmy looked first for merit?
even cameron gave medals to his closest assistants and he
is unusually capable...
Remember Watergate.
i'm well aware of it...in my view 'Liary is worse and without
the redeeming achievements of nixon....
in fact she is followed by disaster...
you don't seem to be making a useful case or being specific...
I wouldn't attempt to predict the specific things he would do. I hope we
never get to find out! But my comments are based on things he has
already done.
o'barmy and 'Liary have left chaos in the middle east....
they've tried to nationalise 16%(and more of the economy...

none of that has made the world of society better or safer...

meanwhile you'll be happy to know that trump is moving ahead
in polls and the effects have yet to feed through

meanwhile trump has built a large business that is producing a
great deal and tends to function efficiently...
why do you believe that can be achieved by impulsive behaviour?

your approach seems to owe much more to emotion that to analysis

i quote words you have now expunged:-
... Trump. He is thin-skinned, vindictive,
spoiled, petulant, a liar, does not respect the law and is detached from
reality.
meanwhile it is *clear* that 'Liary has broken serious laws, laws
which tend to attract long prison sentences...

the clinton machine even looks to me to be vulnerable to rico...
--
www.abelard.org
James Harris
2016-11-01 15:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:21:08 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:54:53 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 10:53:38 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:12:17 +0000, James Harris
...
How can anyone possibly think that putting such a person in the
White House is a good idea? That is a genuine question. Trump may be a
break from the cabal and I get that people desperately want a change.
But he is far from up to the job. AFAICS he is just not credible and
could well be dangerous.
what do you suppose he can or will do that is 'dangerous'
please list examples
What could POTUS do that's dangerous? Um, let me see! ;-)
i see no examples
Well, for arguably the world's most powerful man, the mind boggles as to
what he could get up to.
There's appointments of officials (internal and external to the
government) based on who he thinks likes him. There is international
relations conducted based on who he likes and who he doesn't like. There
are trade arrangements based on his whims. There is surrounding himself
with yes men and women who will stroke his ego. There are various forms
of retribution against all manner of organisations and individuals based
on who has upset him. There are making up and promoting stories about
staff and fellow politicians. There are attempts to interfere in the
justice system. There are fights with those who oppose him - and who
knows how far that would go. And there is possibly a danger of him
becoming increasingly paranoid, isolated, angry and troublesome.
that all sounds like politics as usual...
they always appoint their favourites...it's human nature...
and it's the people they trust...
'Liary is described as paranoid...
pootin is paranoid
brown the clown was paranoid...
most people in such orgs creep around the boss...
do you believe loretta lynch is there on merit?
do you believe o'barmy looked first for merit?
even cameron gave medals to his closest assistants and he
is unusually capable...
Remember Watergate.
i'm well aware of it...in my view 'Liary is worse and without
the redeeming achievements of nixon....
in fact she is followed by disaster...
you don't seem to be making a useful case or being specific...
I wouldn't attempt to predict the specific things he would do. I hope we
never get to find out! But my comments are based on things he has
already done.
o'barmy and 'Liary have left chaos in the middle east....
Obama has been weak and reticent on foreign policy. That's one reason I
thought that America needed a right-winger for a change.
Post by abelard
they've tried to nationalise 16%(and more of the economy...
none of that has made the world of society better or safer...
meanwhile you'll be happy to know that trump is moving ahead
in polls and the effects have yet to feed through
meanwhile trump has built a large business that is producing a
great deal and tends to function efficiently...
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.

As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?

He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.

He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?

Do you still believe that his business empire is strong?
Post by abelard
why do you believe that can be achieved by impulsive behaviour?
your approach seems to owe much more to emotion that to analysis
It is more an assessment of his character. That screams out to me that
he is dangerous in the ways I wrote before and which you copied below.

I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
Post by abelard
i quote words you have now expunged:-
Thanks. I deleted the entire old part of the backlog but I'm delighted
to see such sagacious words again. :-)
Post by abelard
... Trump. He is thin-skinned, vindictive,
spoiled, petulant, a liar, does not respect the law and is detached from
reality.
There are some things I missed.

Trump says he will do things - such as his release his tax returns,
mentioned above - but does absolutely nothing of the sort. He has been
making grandiose claims - such as he will get Mexico to pay for a vast
wall - without, AFAIK, giving any detail over how he will get them to do
so.

He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion. He keeps
praising himself and I think he genuinely believes in his own rhetoric.
He feels that those who speak against him are prejudiced and wrong
because he is so wonderful. Putin apparently called him flamboyant but
Trump claimed that Putin had called him a genius!

I have nothing against him personally and have ignored the sexism issue
because we cannot tell whether the women who accused him were telling
the truth or not. But I have seen more than enough coming out of his own
mouth to view his as dangerously disconnected from reality.

Putting a thin-skinned fantasist in charge of the most powerful nation
on earth doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Post by abelard
meanwhile it is *clear* that 'Liary has broken serious laws, laws
which tend to attract long prison sentences...
the clinton machine even looks to me to be vulnerable to rico...
I don't know how clear Clinton's guilt is or not but would have thought
it was up to prosecutors to establish that in court.
--
James Harris
abelard
2016-11-01 17:02:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:26:59 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:21:08 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:54:53 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 10:53:38 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:12:17 +0000, James Harris
...
How can anyone possibly think that putting such a person in the
White House is a good idea? That is a genuine question. Trump may be a
break from the cabal and I get that people desperately want a change.
But he is far from up to the job. AFAICS he is just not credible and
could well be dangerous.
what do you suppose he can or will do that is 'dangerous'
please list examples
What could POTUS do that's dangerous? Um, let me see! ;-)
i see no examples
Well, for arguably the world's most powerful man, the mind boggles as to
what he could get up to.
There's appointments of officials (internal and external to the
government) based on who he thinks likes him. There is international
relations conducted based on who he likes and who he doesn't like. There
are trade arrangements based on his whims. There is surrounding himself
with yes men and women who will stroke his ego. There are various forms
of retribution against all manner of organisations and individuals based
on who has upset him. There are making up and promoting stories about
staff and fellow politicians. There are attempts to interfere in the
justice system. There are fights with those who oppose him - and who
knows how far that would go. And there is possibly a danger of him
becoming increasingly paranoid, isolated, angry and troublesome.
that all sounds like politics as usual...
they always appoint their favourites...it's human nature...
and it's the people they trust...
'Liary is described as paranoid...
pootin is paranoid
brown the clown was paranoid...
most people in such orgs creep around the boss...
do you believe loretta lynch is there on merit?
do you believe o'barmy looked first for merit?
even cameron gave medals to his closest assistants and he
is unusually capable...
Remember Watergate.
i'm well aware of it...in my view 'Liary is worse and without
the redeeming achievements of nixon....
in fact she is followed by disaster...
you don't seem to be making a useful case or being specific...
I wouldn't attempt to predict the specific things he would do. I hope we
never get to find out! But my comments are based on things he has
already done.
o'barmy and 'Liary have left chaos in the middle east....
Obama has been weak and reticent on foreign policy. That's one reason I
thought that America needed a right-winger for a change.
Post by abelard
they've tried to nationalise 16%(and more of the economy...
none of that has made the world of society better or safer...
meanwhile you'll be happy to know that trump is moving ahead
in polls and the effects have yet to feed through
meanwhile trump has built a large business that is producing a
great deal and tends to function efficiently...
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.
and 'maybe' it isn't going to 'collapse'..do you have any evidence to
support your maybe?

trumps assets are not just government derivatives
Post by James Harris
As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?
so what?
Post by James Harris
He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.
so what?
fortunately his businesses were strong enough to take such
a paper loss

such large losses are common in large corporations
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
look up chapter 11...it is not the same as 'bankruptcy'
Post by James Harris
Do you still believe that his business empire is strong?
i see no reason to suppose otherwise...he is even finding tens
of millions to fund his run allegedly
usually such runs depend on other people's money...like 'Liary's
run...people who then want 'favours'
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
why do you believe that can be achieved by impulsive behaviour?
your approach seems to owe much more to emotion that to analysis
It is more an assessment of his character. That screams out to me that
he is dangerous in the ways I wrote before and which you copied below.
I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
i think you...and most of the left, are badly misreading him

he's a master of the media...have you even started to consider
what that means?
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
i quote words you have now expunged:-
Thanks. I deleted the entire old part of the backlog but I'm delighted
to see such sagacious words again. :-)
Post by abelard
... Trump. He is thin-skinned, vindictive,
spoiled, petulant, a liar, does not respect the law and is detached from
reality.
There are some things I missed.
Trump says he will do things - such as his release his tax returns,
mentioned above - but does absolutely nothing of the sort.
sensible move..'Liary would just start lying about the meaning
of them and confusing the uneducated
Post by James Harris
He has been
making grandiose claims - such as he will get Mexico to pay for a vast
wall - without, AFAIK, giving any detail over how he will get them to do
so.
that is easy...put a tariff on their goods
Post by James Harris
He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion.
those are your opinions...are you 'obsessed' with them
Post by James Harris
He keeps
praising himself
so does every politician seeking g to get elected...

'Liary keeps going on about her wonderful experience and
record...i see much more evidence that trump can actually
back up his claims
Post by James Harris
and I think he genuinely believes in his own rhetoric.
does he? is that a mind-read?
do you believe in your rhetoric? you know, that cascade of unbacked
adjectives you copied from the fossil media
Post by James Harris
He feels that those who speak against him are prejudiced and wrong
so do you
Post by James Harris
because he is so wonderful. Putin apparently called him flamboyant but
Trump claimed that Putin had called him a genius!
i don't know whether putin did or did not...

while he may not be what i'd call a genius,,,he certainly
looks like one alongside missis clinton...
so indeed does mister clinton alongside her
Post by James Harris
I have nothing against him personally
i do hope he appreciates that...
Post by James Harris
and have ignored the sexism issue
because we cannot tell whether the women who accused him were telling
the truth or not.
indeed you don't, but of course you will mention it anyway
Post by James Harris
But I have seen more than enough coming out of his own
mouth to view his as dangerously disconnected from reality.
i'll be more convinced when you make a better case, if you ever do
Post by James Harris
Putting a thin-skinned fantasist in charge of the most powerful nation
on earth doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
you seem to confuse what a person says with what they do....

how does that work with 'Liary who can hardly open her mouth
without lying?
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
meanwhile it is *clear* that 'Liary has broken serious laws, laws
which tend to attract long prison sentences...
the clinton machine even looks to me to be vulnerable to rico...
I don't know how clear Clinton's guilt is or not but would have thought
it was up to prosecutors to establish that in court.
i expect them to be given much opportunity to do that...

of course i also expect o'barmy to forgive her...i even wonder
if she will give herself an official exemption!....

though i'm slightly hesitant to believe o'barmy actually likes her...
even mister clinton may prefer her at home
neither of them are entirely supportive of her...

i see she just lost the 3rd of her surrogate girl friends...soon there
will be nobody left left left available to throw under the busses..
what happens when she runs out of scapegoats?

i predict a troubled future for the madam...even if the ignorati
vote for her in their trillions
--
www.abelard.org
Wexford
2016-11-01 21:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:26:59 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:21:08 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:54:53 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 10:53:38 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:12:17 +0000, James Harris
...
How can anyone possibly think that putting such a person in the
White House is a good idea? That is a genuine question. Trump may be a
break from the cabal and I get that people desperately want a change.
But he is far from up to the job. AFAICS he is just not credible and
could well be dangerous.
what do you suppose he can or will do that is 'dangerous'
please list examples
What could POTUS do that's dangerous? Um, let me see! ;-)
i see no examples
Well, for arguably the world's most powerful man, the mind boggles as to
what he could get up to.
There's appointments of officials (internal and external to the
government) based on who he thinks likes him. There is international
relations conducted based on who he likes and who he doesn't like. There
are trade arrangements based on his whims. There is surrounding himself
with yes men and women who will stroke his ego. There are various forms
of retribution against all manner of organisations and individuals based
on who has upset him. There are making up and promoting stories about
staff and fellow politicians. There are attempts to interfere in the
justice system. There are fights with those who oppose him - and who
knows how far that would go. And there is possibly a danger of him
becoming increasingly paranoid, isolated, angry and troublesome.
that all sounds like politics as usual...
they always appoint their favourites...it's human nature...
and it's the people they trust...
'Liary is described as paranoid...
pootin is paranoid
brown the clown was paranoid...
most people in such orgs creep around the boss...
do you believe loretta lynch is there on merit?
do you believe o'barmy looked first for merit?
even cameron gave medals to his closest assistants and he
is unusually capable...
Remember Watergate.
i'm well aware of it...in my view 'Liary is worse and without
the redeeming achievements of nixon....
in fact she is followed by disaster...
you don't seem to be making a useful case or being specific...
I wouldn't attempt to predict the specific things he would do. I hope we
never get to find out! But my comments are based on things he has
already done.
o'barmy and 'Liary have left chaos in the middle east....
Obama has been weak and reticent on foreign policy. That's one reason I
thought that America needed a right-winger for a change.
Yeah, you need a right-winger like Bush who lied us into a 2 trillion dollar war and cost 4,000 American lives. Obama's reluctance to engage in military adventures has been a positive blessing, moron, not a sign of weakness. The man doesn't have to kill our troops or anyone else to prove himself.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
they've tried to nationalise 16%(and more of the economy...
none of that has made the world of society better or safer...
meanwhile you'll be happy to know that trump is moving ahead
in polls and the effects have yet to feed through
meanwhile trump has built a large business that is producing a
great deal and tends to function efficiently...
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.
and 'maybe' it isn't going to 'collapse'..do you have any evidence to
support your maybe?
Trump won't reveal his actual finances or his taxes so no one knows. For the past twenty years or so most of what he's done is franchise his name. His last capitalist venture in Washington is suffering badly.
Post by abelard
trumps assets are not just government derivatives
Meaning what? Hillary got a $14 million dollar advance on her latest book. She and her husband have several businesses in which they've invested. They're not worth billions but then they spent their lives in public service.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?
so what?
So he's the first presidential candidate in 40 years not to do it. What does he have to hide?
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.
so what?
fortunately his businesses were strong enough to take such
a paper loss
His business wasn't that strong. Trump is pretty good at passing on losses to others.
Post by abelard
such large losses are common in large corporations
Really? Do tell. Name a few.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
look up chapter 11...it is not the same as 'bankruptcy'
Chapter 11 is bankruptcy. "This chapter of the Bankruptcy Code generally provides for reorganization, usually involving a corporation or partnership. A chapter 11 debtor usually proposes a plan of reorganization to keep its business alive and pay creditors over time."

That "reorganization" allowed Trump to stiff suppliers and contractors, make a claim for his own severance package and generally exit unscathed and richer.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Do you still believe that his business empire is strong?
i see no reason to suppose otherwise...he is even finding tens
of millions to fund his run allegedly
usually such runs depend on other people's money...like 'Liary's
run...people who then want 'favours'
You don't know whose money he's using. If its Trump he's using other people's money, not his own. As for Hillary (her name's not 'Liary, asshole), sure she gets contributions but so does Trump/
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
why do you believe that can be achieved by impulsive behaviour?
your approach seems to owe much more to emotion that to analysis
It is more an assessment of his character. That screams out to me that
he is dangerous in the ways I wrote before and which you copied below.
I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
i think you...and most of the left, are badly misreading him
How do you badly misread a man who says he admires Putin and has a lot of respect for Kim Jung Un, who calls his own daughter "a piece of ass," who makes fun of people's afflictions, and who habitually lies and exaggerates?
Post by abelard
he's a master of the media...have you even started to consider
what that means?
He's an asshole, like you. People watch him the same way they watch any tawdry, vulgar real-life show.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
i quote words you have now expunged:-
Thanks. I deleted the entire old part of the backlog but I'm delighted
to see such sagacious words again. :-)
Post by abelard
... Trump. He is thin-skinned, vindictive,
spoiled, petulant, a liar, does not respect the law and is detached from
reality.
There are some things I missed.
Trump says he will do things - such as his release his tax returns,
mentioned above - but does absolutely nothing of the sort.
sensible move..'Liary would just start lying about the meaning
of them and confusing the uneducated
How about giving us an example, moron? I could quote Trump all day. By the way, asshole, her name is Hillary.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He has been
making grandiose claims - such as he will get Mexico to pay for a vast
wall - without, AFAIK, giving any detail over how he will get them to do
so.
that is easy...put a tariff on their goods
Not so easy, moron, and tariffs usually generate retaliatory tariffs in return. Regarding Mexico, you're insane (of course you are) if (1) you think that Congress will ever allocate the money to build the damn wall, and (2) the Mexico will somehow pay for it.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion.
those are your opinions...are you 'obsessed' with them
He is vulgar, nasty, racist, hardly able to make a proper English sentence, rude, and a constant, habitual, pathological liar. Those are NOT my opinions; they're facts.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He keeps
praising himself
so does every politician seeking g to get elected.
I have never heard a politician say he was the only one who could "fix the system," as Trump did. He's a megalomaniac.
Post by abelard
'Liary keeps going on about her wonderful experience and
record...i see much more evidence that trump can actually
back up his claims
???? Only because you want to.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
and I think he genuinely believes in his own rhetoric.
does he? is that a mind-read?
do you believe in your rhetoric? you know, that cascade of unbacked
adjectives you copied from the fossil media
Fossil media? Oh, you mean the news media that actually reports news at least with some objectivity. I suppose Fox and Breibart are your idea of modern media, constant purveyors of winger propaganda and lies.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He feels that those who speak against him are prejudiced and wrong
so do you
The difference being that Trump responds with anger, shouting, threats, mockery, adolescent name-calling, shouting and inane, unfounded accusations.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
because he is so wonderful. Putin apparently called him flamboyant but
Trump claimed that Putin had called him a genius!
i don't know whether putin did or did not...
I know what he said about Putin ""Look at Putin -- what he's doing with Russia -- I mean, you know, what's going on over there. I mean this guy has done -- whether you like him or don't like him -- he's doing a great job in rebuilding the image of Russia and also rebuilding Russia period."

Russia is now in a deep recession and has been for a while. Putin has done a great job at murdering journalists and jailing his political opponents. Now, who wants to jail his opponents? Oh, yes, Trump.
Post by abelard
while he may not be what i'd call a genius,,,he certainly
looks like one alongside missis clinton...
so indeed does mister clinton alongside her
Hillary made him look like a total ass and bully during their debates. She has class. He has none.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
I have nothing against him personally
i do hope he appreciates that...
Post by James Harris
and have ignored the sexism issue
because we cannot tell whether the women who accused him were telling
the truth or not.
indeed you don't, but of course you will mention it anyway
Post by James Harris
But I have seen more than enough coming out of his own
mouth to view his as dangerously disconnected from reality.
i'll be more convinced when you make a better case, if you ever do
A better case? You have Trump's own, disgusting statements to consider. Of course if you think "grab them by the pussy" is just manly talk, fine. I think it's indicative of a vulgar, mean, dirty, bullying old man.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Putting a thin-skinned fantasist in charge of the most powerful nation
on earth doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
you seem to confuse what a person says with what they do....
how does that work with 'Liary who can hardly open her mouth
without lying?
Really? Have an example? Trump denied saying he supported the war in Iraq even when shown the tape. He lies about everything, continually. He has the most "pants on fire" rating of any politician ever measured.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
meanwhile it is *clear* that 'Liary has broken serious laws, laws
which tend to attract long prison sentences...
the clinton machine even looks to me to be vulnerable to rico...
I don't know how clear Clinton's guilt is or not but would have thought
it was up to prosecutors to establish that in court.
i expect them to be given much opportunity to do that...
Really? Why? Because you say so?
Post by abelard
of course i also expect o'barmy to forgive her...i even wonder
if she will give herself an official exemption!....
No, she wouldn't do that. She's not a Republican. I know you think it's terribly clever to make fun of people's names, but it isn't. It's juvenile but it is the kind of childish taunt I'd expect from a rather stupid Trump supporter.
Rest of rather boring, unless unsupported crapola snipped.

Grow up, Abelard. You're neither clever nor witty. You're just stupid.
James Harris
2016-11-02 09:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:26:59 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:21:08 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:54:53 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 10:53:38 +0000, James Harris
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:12:17 +0000, James Harris
...
How can anyone possibly think that putting such a person in the
White House is a good idea? That is a genuine question. Trump may be a
break from the cabal and I get that people desperately want a change.
But he is far from up to the job. AFAICS he is just not credible and
could well be dangerous.
what do you suppose he can or will do that is 'dangerous'
please list examples
What could POTUS do that's dangerous? Um, let me see! ;-)
i see no examples
Well, for arguably the world's most powerful man, the mind boggles as to
what he could get up to.
There's appointments of officials (internal and external to the
government) based on who he thinks likes him. There is international
relations conducted based on who he likes and who he doesn't like. There
are trade arrangements based on his whims. There is surrounding himself
with yes men and women who will stroke his ego. There are various forms
of retribution against all manner of organisations and individuals based
on who has upset him. There are making up and promoting stories about
staff and fellow politicians. There are attempts to interfere in the
justice system. There are fights with those who oppose him - and who
knows how far that would go. And there is possibly a danger of him
becoming increasingly paranoid, isolated, angry and troublesome.
that all sounds like politics as usual...
they always appoint their favourites...it's human nature...
and it's the people they trust...
'Liary is described as paranoid...
pootin is paranoid
brown the clown was paranoid...
most people in such orgs creep around the boss...
do you believe loretta lynch is there on merit?
do you believe o'barmy looked first for merit?
even cameron gave medals to his closest assistants and he
is unusually capable...
Remember Watergate.
i'm well aware of it...in my view 'Liary is worse and without
the redeeming achievements of nixon....
in fact she is followed by disaster...
you don't seem to be making a useful case or being specific...
I wouldn't attempt to predict the specific things he would do. I hope we
never get to find out! But my comments are based on things he has
already done.
o'barmy and 'Liary have left chaos in the middle east....
Obama has been weak and reticent on foreign policy. That's one reason I
thought that America needed a right-winger for a change.
Post by abelard
they've tried to nationalise 16%(and more of the economy...
none of that has made the world of society better or safer...
meanwhile you'll be happy to know that trump is moving ahead
in polls and the effects have yet to feed through
meanwhile trump has built a large business that is producing a
great deal and tends to function efficiently...
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.
and 'maybe' it isn't going to 'collapse'..do you have any evidence to
support your maybe?
I gave two maybes, one for each side. We won't know the situation on
either side without disclosure.
Post by abelard
trumps assets are not just government derivatives
Post by James Harris
As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?
so what?
That's odd. You don't think that broken promises tell us anything about
his integrity? Or about how reliable or unreliable his promises are? Or
about how ready he is to give an undertaking but how reticent he is to
deliver on what he has said he would do? Or how that relates to the
grandiose claims he is now making for what he would do as President?
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.
so what?
fortunately his businesses were strong enough to take such
a paper loss
Or his bankers sustained him, and maybe still do. Do you know that his
business empire is owned by him? Or how much of it is owned by the banks?
Post by abelard
such large losses are common in large corporations
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
look up chapter 11...it is not the same as 'bankruptcy'
Post by James Harris
Do you still believe that his business empire is strong?
i see no reason to suppose otherwise...he is even finding tens
of millions to fund his run allegedly
usually such runs depend on other people's money...like 'Liary's
run...people who then want 'favours'
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
why do you believe that can be achieved by impulsive behaviour?
your approach seems to owe much more to emotion that to analysis
It is more an assessment of his character. That screams out to me that
he is dangerous in the ways I wrote before and which you copied below.
I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
i think you...and most of the left, are badly misreading him
I feel that you and most of the left are misreading him!
Post by abelard
he's a master of the media...have you even started to consider
what that means?
No. What does it mean?
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
i quote words you have now expunged:-
Thanks. I deleted the entire old part of the backlog but I'm delighted
to see such sagacious words again. :-)
Post by abelard
... Trump. He is thin-skinned, vindictive,
spoiled, petulant, a liar, does not respect the law and is detached from
reality.
There are some things I missed.
Trump says he will do things - such as his release his tax returns,
mentioned above - but does absolutely nothing of the sort.
sensible move..'Liary would just start lying about the meaning
of them and confusing the uneducated
Sensible to say he will do something and then not do it?

Won't he be found out sooner or later? Clinton has been under political
scrutiny for 30 years or so. Trump has never faced such scrutiny. He may
be in a honeymoon period when, to the public, he is new and exciting.
But he has not been tested.

Even before taking office he has been found out making absurd claims
such as that he would publish his tax returns if he ran for office, or
Obama not being American, or that all the polls were in his favour.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He has been
making grandiose claims - such as he will get Mexico to pay for a vast
wall - without, AFAIK, giving any detail over how he will get them to do
so.
that is easy...put a tariff on their goods
Has he said he would do that? Wouldn't he have to scrap and renegotiate
NAFTA to do that? What would a trade war do to US and global economies?
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion.
those are your opinions...are you 'obsessed' with them
No, not at all. You asked me to list the reasons why I thought he was
dangerous as POTUS, didn't you.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He keeps
praising himself
so does every politician seeking g to get elected...
'Liary keeps going on about her wonderful experience and
record...i see much more evidence that trump can actually
back up his claims
Post by James Harris
and I think he genuinely believes in his own rhetoric.
does he? is that a mind-read?
do you believe in your rhetoric? you know, that cascade of unbacked
adjectives you copied from the fossil media
You seem to be losing the thread. You wanted me to explain why I thought
Trump would dangerous. I explained. And NONE of it was copied from the
media. Now, you are seeking to make this personal and attack me for some
reason. If you don't like to hear negative opinions about Trump, you
shouldn't ask for them.
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He feels that those who speak against him are prejudiced and wrong
so do you
Personal again. Do you see what's happening to your argument?
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
because he is so wonderful. Putin apparently called him flamboyant but
Trump claimed that Putin had called him a genius!
i don't know whether putin did or did not...
while he may not be what i'd call a genius,,,he certainly
looks like one alongside missis clinton...
so indeed does mister clinton alongside her
Post by James Harris
I have nothing against him personally
i do hope he appreciates that...
Post by James Harris
and have ignored the sexism issue
because we cannot tell whether the women who accused him were telling
the truth or not.
indeed you don't, but of course you will mention it anyway
No, I am putting the argument in context because you seem to think this
is personal on my side. It is not.
--
James Harris
abelard
2016-11-02 10:18:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 09:48:27 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:26:59 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.
and 'maybe' it isn't going to 'collapse'..do you have any evidence to
support your maybe?
I gave two maybes, one for each side. We won't know the situation on
either side without disclosure.
it's meaningless
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
trumps assets are not just government derivatives
Post by James Harris
As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?
so what?
That's odd. You don't think that broken promises tell us anything about
his integrity? Or about how reliable or unreliable his promises are? Or
about how ready he is to give an undertaking but how reticent he is to
deliver on what he has said he would do? Or how that relates to the
grandiose claims he is now making for what he would do as President?
it's meaningless

he has a mass of policy

there are around 100 pages of trump's audited capital position...
i've read through them...

meanwhile the clinton family affairs smell of rico to me...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.
so what?
fortunately his businesses were strong enough to take such
a paper loss
Or his bankers sustained him, and maybe still do. Do you know that his
business empire is owned by him? Or how much of it is owned by the banks?
it's meaningless

it's all your uninformed speculation which has already been
answered

all that matters is the vote and the supreme court and such like...
your media copied speculation is irrelevant
they are designed for only one thing...distraction...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
i think you...and most of the left, are badly misreading him
I feel that you and most of the left are misreading him!
of course you do/hope..i agree the left is misreading him

i've bothered to inform myself as well as is available...you've just
jumped in with a cartload of adjectives
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
he's a master of the media...have you even started to consider
what that means?
No. What does it mean?
i may answer that after the election
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
sensible move..'Liary would just start lying about the meaning
of them and confusing the uneducated
Sensible to say he will do something and then not do it?
i know enough

he says he will build a hotel..he builds a hotel...
Post by James Harris
Won't he be found out sooner or later? Clinton has been under political
scrutiny for 30 years or so. Trump has never faced such scrutiny. He may
be in a honeymoon period when, to the public, he is new and exciting.
But he has not been tested.
'Liary has been lying all her life...she has not been under 'scrutiny'

the whole clinton machine is dubious...
Post by James Harris
Even before taking office he has been found out making absurd claims
such as that he would publish his tax returns if he ran for office, or
Obama not being American, or that all the polls were in his favour.
so what?

o'barmy was raised in a moslem/marxist environment...where he was
plopped out is of no interest...

trump has a very fine sense of humour...eventually o'barmy was
forced to produce evidence...

were the usa population informed, o'barmy would never have been
president...like every socialist he has no intention of
transparency...
he is trying to rule by executive order bypassing the
constitutional constraints on him...

like bliar, he is a vacuous grin and a fossil media construction...
he's acting as a rap star...not as a responsible leader of
president
and all the little sheep go quack quack quack...

you'd be far better ignoring the blithering and attending to the real
world actions of politicians
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He has been
making grandiose claims - such as he will get Mexico to pay for a vast
wall - without, AFAIK, giving any detail over how he will get them to do
so.
that is easy...put a tariff on their goods
Has he said he would do that? Wouldn't he have to scrap and renegotiate
NAFTA to do that? What would a trade war do to US and global economies?
so what?
you're already in a 'trade war'...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion.
those are your opinions...are you 'obsessed' with them
No, not at all. You asked me to list the reasons why I thought he was
dangerous as POTUS, didn't you.
and all you provided were adjectives and speculation
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He keeps
praising himself
so does every politician seeking g to get elected...
'Liary keeps going on about her wonderful experience and
record...i see much more evidence that trump can actually
back up his claims
Post by James Harris
and I think he genuinely believes in his own rhetoric.
does he? is that a mind-read?
do you believe in your rhetoric? you know, that cascade of unbacked
adjectives you copied from the fossil media
You seem to be losing the thread. You wanted me to explain why I thought
Trump would dangerous. I explained. And NONE of it was copied from the
media. Now, you are seeking to make this personal and attack me for some
reason. If you don't like to hear negative opinions about Trump, you
shouldn't ask for them.
all the fluff you have reproduced i've seen from the fossil media
and 'Liary's surrogates and from her
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He feels that those who speak against him are prejudiced and wrong
so do you
Personal again. Do you see what's happening to your argument?
certainly...i'm not being diverted by your tirade of fluff
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
I have nothing against him personally
i do hope he appreciates that...
Post by James Harris
and have ignored the sexism issue
because we cannot tell whether the women who accused him were telling
the truth or not.
indeed you don't, but of course you will mention it anyway
No, I am putting the argument in context because you seem to think this
is personal on my side. It is not.
then why are you repeating speculation and low level fluff?

you made assertions...you can't support them...the only effect
that is having on me is to reassess any ideas as to why you
are so keen on brexit...

i am moving a slider towards 'political' and away from
'interested/objective' which you are trying to sell...
--
www.abelard.org
Wexford
2016-11-02 22:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 09:48:27 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:26:59 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.
and 'maybe' it isn't going to 'collapse'..do you have any evidence to
support your maybe?
I gave two maybes, one for each side. We won't know the situation on
either side without disclosure.
it's meaningless
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
trumps assets are not just government derivatives
Post by James Harris
As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?
so what?
That's odd. You don't think that broken promises tell us anything about
his integrity? Or about how reliable or unreliable his promises are? Or
about how ready he is to give an undertaking but how reticent he is to
deliver on what he has said he would do? Or how that relates to the
grandiose claims he is now making for what he would do as President?
it's meaningless
he has a mass of policy
there are around 100 pages of trump's audited capital position...
i've read through them...
meanwhile the clinton family affairs smell of rico to me...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.
so what?
fortunately his businesses were strong enough to take such
a paper loss
Or his bankers sustained him, and maybe still do. Do you know that his
business empire is owned by him? Or how much of it is owned by the banks?
it's meaningless
it's all your uninformed speculation which has already been
answered
all that matters is the vote and the supreme court and such like...
your media copied speculation is irrelevant
they are designed for only one thing...distraction...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
i think you...and most of the left, are badly misreading him
I feel that you and most of the left are misreading him!
of course you do/hope..i agree the left is misreading him
i've bothered to inform myself as well as is available...you've just
jumped in with a cartload of adjectives
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
he's a master of the media...have you even started to consider
what that means?
No. What does it mean?
i may answer that after the election
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
sensible move..'Liary would just start lying about the meaning
of them and confusing the uneducated
Sensible to say he will do something and then not do it?
i know enough
he says he will build a hotel..he builds a hotel...
Post by James Harris
Won't he be found out sooner or later? Clinton has been under political
scrutiny for 30 years or so. Trump has never faced such scrutiny. He may
be in a honeymoon period when, to the public, he is new and exciting.
But he has not been tested.
'Liary has been lying all her life...she has not been under 'scrutiny'
the whole clinton machine is dubious...
Post by James Harris
Even before taking office he has been found out making absurd claims
such as that he would publish his tax returns if he ran for office, or
Obama not being American, or that all the polls were in his favour.
so what?
o'barmy was raised in a moslem/marxist environment...where he was
plopped out is of no interest...
trump has a very fine sense of humour...eventually o'barmy was
forced to produce evidence...
were the usa population informed, o'barmy would never have been
president...like every socialist he has no intention of
transparency...
he is trying to rule by executive order bypassing the
constitutional constraints on him...
like bliar, he is a vacuous grin and a fossil media construction...
he's acting as a rap star...not as a responsible leader of
president
and all the little sheep go quack quack quack...
you'd be far better ignoring the blithering and attending to the real
world actions of politicians
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He has been
making grandiose claims - such as he will get Mexico to pay for a vast
wall - without, AFAIK, giving any detail over how he will get them to do
so.
that is easy...put a tariff on their goods
Has he said he would do that? Wouldn't he have to scrap and renegotiate
NAFTA to do that? What would a trade war do to US and global economies?
so what?
you're already in a 'trade war'...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion.
those are your opinions...are you 'obsessed' with them
No, not at all. You asked me to list the reasons why I thought he was
dangerous as POTUS, didn't you.
and all you provided were adjectives and speculation
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He keeps
praising himself
so does every politician seeking g to get elected...
'Liary keeps going on about her wonderful experience and
record...i see much more evidence that trump can actually
back up his claims
Post by James Harris
and I think he genuinely believes in his own rhetoric.
does he? is that a mind-read?
do you believe in your rhetoric? you know, that cascade of unbacked
adjectives you copied from the fossil media
You seem to be losing the thread. You wanted me to explain why I thought
Trump would dangerous. I explained. And NONE of it was copied from the
media. Now, you are seeking to make this personal and attack me for some
reason. If you don't like to hear negative opinions about Trump, you
shouldn't ask for them.
all the fluff you have reproduced i've seen from the fossil media
and 'Liary's surrogates and from her
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He feels that those who speak against him are prejudiced and wrong
so do you
Personal again. Do you see what's happening to your argument?
certainly...i'm not being diverted by your tirade of fluff
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
I have nothing against him personally
i do hope he appreciates that...
Post by James Harris
and have ignored the sexism issue
because we cannot tell whether the women who accused him were telling
the truth or not.
indeed you don't, but of course you will mention it anyway
No, I am putting the argument in context because you seem to think this
is personal on my side. It is not.
then why are you repeating speculation and low level fluff?
you made assertions...you can't support them...the only effect
that is having on me is to reassess any ideas as to why you
are so keen on brexit...
i am moving a slider towards 'political' and away from
'interested/objective' which you are trying to sell...
--
www.abelard.org
Abelard - give it up. You can't respond to anything so you're irrational and angry; you induce your own stupidity.
James Harris
2016-11-03 09:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 09:48:27 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:26:59 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Maybe. But maybe it is all built on confidence and could collapse if the
internals were known. Lehman Brothers were thought to be strong.
and 'maybe' it isn't going to 'collapse'..do you have any evidence to
support your maybe?
I gave two maybes, one for each side. We won't know the situation on
either side without disclosure.
it's meaningless
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
trumps assets are not just government derivatives
Post by James Harris
As for his finances, Trump said he would publish his tax returns if he
ran for President. Where are they?
so what?
That's odd. You don't think that broken promises tell us anything about
his integrity? Or about how reliable or unreliable his promises are? Or
about how ready he is to give an undertaking but how reticent he is to
deliver on what he has said he would do? Or how that relates to the
grandiose claims he is now making for what he would do as President?
it's meaningless
he has a mass of policy
there are around 100 pages of trump's audited capital position...
i've read through them...
meanwhile the clinton family affairs smell of rico to me...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He lost something like $900 million in one year, 1995.
so what?
fortunately his businesses were strong enough to take such
a paper loss
Or his bankers sustained him, and maybe still do. Do you know that his
business empire is owned by him? Or how much of it is owned by the banks?
it's meaningless
it's all your uninformed speculation which has already been
answered
all that matters is the vote and the supreme court and such like...
your media copied speculation is irrelevant
they are designed for only one thing...distraction...
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
I tend to trust my own judgement of character and that would be
basically enough. But in this case the assessment is validated by things
he has done and said so I am fairly confident that it would be unwise to
place him in a position of power.
i think you...and most of the left, are badly misreading him
I feel that you and most of the left are misreading him!
of course you do/hope..i agree the left is misreading him
i've bothered to inform myself as well as is available...you've just
jumped in with a cartload of adjectives
Each one based on observation, not hatred or dislike or any other
personal feelings of animosity.

I'll try to explain one of those 'adjectives' in detail so you can see
that this is not an emotional response.

For example, I said that he was a fantasist. That was based on numerous
examples of him claiming something was the case when the evidence was
there to the contrary (e.g. opinion polls all putting him ahead when we
could see that they weren't) or him making assertions that had no
support in fact (e.g. for years saying that Obama was not American).

If he knew that what he was saying was false he would be a liar. If he
believed it to be true he would be a fantasist. Either way, it's not good.

Or now, we know that emails of someone close to Clinton are about to be
examined by the FBI. If he said, "We don't know what is in those emails
so should not rush to judgement. It is important that we follow the due
process of law in this country" then I could respect him as a statesman.
AFAICS, someone who behaved in a mature manner would be on the way to
picking up support. Instead, still without knowing their contents Trump
claims not just that there are bad things to come out but that it is the
biggest scandal since Watergate!

I don't understand how a man who condemns without trial and puts his
opinions above the due process of the legal system can be considered fit
to lead America.

Isn't it that he /wants/ to think of Clinton as a criminal and so, in
his mind, she is?
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
he's a master of the media...have you even started to consider
what that means?
No. What does it mean?
i may answer that after the election
That reminds me of Trump saying he would decide whether he thought the
process was rigged or not after the election. Presumably if he wins he
will be OK with it...!
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
sensible move..'Liary would just start lying about the meaning
of them and confusing the uneducated
Sensible to say he will do something and then not do it?
i know enough
he says he will build a hotel..he builds a hotel...
On Hotels, I just looked them up and found this lot. But I've not
researched him like you have. Are any of them true?

In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use
junk bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.

A year later, another of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and
managed to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or
role in day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had
some $900 million in personal debt.

Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed
for bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself
was the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling
stake in it.

Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump
Entertainment Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the
board, but the company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued
to take his name off the company and its casinos—one of which had
already closed, and the other of which was near closing.

...
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
Post by abelard
Post by James Harris
He is a fantasist and arrogant, obsessed with his own opinion.
those are your opinions...are you 'obsessed' with them
No, not at all. You asked me to list the reasons why I thought he was
dangerous as POTUS, didn't you.
and all you provided were adjectives and speculation
No, as I said above, they were all based on specifics. I gave fantasist
examples above.

If you don't believe me, why not consider the comments of someone who
got to know him over a period of time, the person who wrote or co-wrote
his best seller The Art of the Deal.

He was interviewed by the BBC PM programme on Friday. It makes sobering
listening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07zxh28

The interview starts at 32m09.
--
James Harris
Osmium
2016-11-01 19:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his name
a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the time they
declared bakruptcy.
James Harris
2016-11-03 08:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being
paid. The creditors lose out.

I just searched. This came up on the first page.

The Four Bankruptcies

Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009

The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump’s companies have entered
bankruptcy.

In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use
junk bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.

A year later, another of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and
managed to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or
role in day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had
some $900 million in personal debt.

Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed
for bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself
was the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling
stake in it.

Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump
Entertainment Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the
board, but the company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued
to take his name off the company and its casinos—one of which had
already closed, and the other of which was near closing.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
--
James Harris
abelard
2016-11-03 10:30:54 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 08:30:48 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being
paid. The creditors lose out.
I just searched. This came up on the first page.
The Four Bankruptcies
Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009
The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump’s companies have entered
bankruptcy.
In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use
junk bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.
A year later, another of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and
managed to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or
role in day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had
some $900 million in personal debt.
Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed
for bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself
was the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling
stake in it.
Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump
Entertainment Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the
board, but the company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued
to take his name off the company and its casinos—one of which had
already closed, and the other of which was near closing.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
during that time period most banks and governments went insolvent....

he still has an empire...he has survived...

many banks and governments are still over their heads in debt...

why would you care?

much depends on how you read the numbers but it is the bottom
line that matters...

the world is full of troubles and strife....surviving and achieving
is different outside the sheep pens...
--
www.abelard.org
Wexford
2016-11-04 03:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 08:30:48 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being
paid. The creditors lose out.
I just searched. This came up on the first page.
The Four Bankruptcies
Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009
The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump’s companies have entered
bankruptcy.
In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use
junk bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.
A year later, another of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and
managed to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or
role in day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had
some $900 million in personal debt.
Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed
for bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself
was the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling
stake in it.
Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump
Entertainment Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the
board, but the company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued
to take his name off the company and its casinos—one of which had
already closed, and the other of which was near closing.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
during that time period most banks and governments went insolvent....
That's utterly laughable. You're as bad as Trump. Bang into the truth and you make something up.
Post by abelard
he still has an empire...he has survived...
You don't know what he has. If he can stretch a caarryforward loss of 900 million over 18-19 years, he sure as hell didn;t make anything like the money he claims to have made. Do the math, meathead.
Post by abelard
many banks and governments are still over their heads in debt...
Some governments are but others are quite solvent and quite capable of servicing their debt. The crisis is transitory, anyway. What does this have to do with Trump? He didn't manage either a government or a bank, and doesn't know how. The businesses he did manage seem to have turned to crap.
Post by abelard
why would you care?
much depends on how you read the numbers but it is the bottom
line that matters...
How would you know?
Post by abelard
the world is full of troubles and strife....surviving and achieving
is different outside the sheep pens...
Yes... sheep. You keep them? Marry them?
Osmium
2016-11-03 15:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being paid.
The creditors lose out.
I just searched. This came up on the first page.
The Four Bankruptcies
Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009
The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump’s companies have entered
bankruptcy.
In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use junk
bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.
A year later, another of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and managed
to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or role in
day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had some $900
million in personal debt.
That $900 million personal debt is a new factoid to me. It's mind boggling
to me that any organization (bank for example) would even *allow* such a
thing to happen. What in the world was the guy cutting the check for the
last measly million thinking of? To me, it sounds like there was no thought
process at all involved in the loan that brought the total up to $900
million. It is small wonder that we had a financial meltdown following
2009. To get back on topic (Trumps evil) I note that Obama has let the
clock run out on the financial people for eight years so their malfeasance
can not now be punished, the statute of limitations kicks in and protect
these simple-minded, crooked bastards. Thanks Obama. Thanks Eric Holder.
Thanks Loretta Lynch.

So will Trump go to his grave with something approaching $900 million in
personal debt. Is there any reason to pay off this debt? Life seems to be
treating him pretty well, he got another airplane, and a helicopter, I
think. Or, at least ones that he can treat as if they were his. He can say
how they are painted and where they go and what brand of caviar they have in
the pantry.
Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed for
bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself was
the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling stake
in it.
Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump Entertainment
Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the board, but the
company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued to take his name
off the company and its casinos—one of which had already closed, and the
other of which was near closing.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
--
James Harris
First-Post
2016-11-03 16:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Osmium
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being paid.
The creditors lose out.
I just searched. This came up on the first page.
The Four Bankruptcies
Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009
The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump’s companies have entered
bankruptcy.
In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use junk
bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.
A year later, another of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and managed
to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or role in
day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had some $900
million in personal debt.
That $900 million personal debt is a new factoid to me. It's mind boggling
to me that any organization (bank for example) would even *allow* such a
thing to happen. What in the world was the guy cutting the check for the
last measly million thinking of? To me, it sounds like there was no thought
process at all involved in the loan that brought the total up to $900
million. It is small wonder that we had a financial meltdown following
2009. To get back on topic (Trumps evil) I note that Obama has let the
clock run out on the financial people for eight years so their malfeasance
can not now be punished, the statute of limitations kicks in and protect
these simple-minded, crooked bastards. Thanks Obama. Thanks Eric Holder.
Thanks Loretta Lynch.
So will Trump go to his grave with something approaching $900 million in
personal debt. Is there any reason to pay off this debt? Life seems to be
treating him pretty well, he got another airplane, and a helicopter, I
think. Or, at least ones that he can treat as if they were his. He can say
how they are painted and where they go and what brand of caviar they have in
the pantry.
Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed for
bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself was
the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling stake
in it.
Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump Entertainment
Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the board, but the
company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued to take his name
off the company and its casinos—one of which had already closed, and the
other of which was near closing.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
--
James Harris
Trump's 2016 personal financial-disclosure report lists Trump as a
trustee, president, chairman, or member for more than 530 entities.
Almost half of these companies listed have Trump's name as part of the
company name.
4 Bankruptcies out of over 500 is a damn good track record in the
business world.
Likely a damn site better record than either of you two wannabe
financial wizards have ever had in your lives.
At least he isn't running a scam "foundation" that rakes in millions
from terrorist supporting states and then only gives 5% or less to
charity with the rest going into the pockets of the namesake.
Osmium
2016-11-03 17:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by First-Post
Post by Osmium
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being paid.
The creditors lose out.
I just searched. This came up on the first page.
The Four Bankruptcies
Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009
The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump's companies have entered
bankruptcy.
In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn't need to use
junk
bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn't keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.
A year later, another of Trump's Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and managed
to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or role in
day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had some $900
million in personal debt.
That $900 million personal debt is a new factoid to me. It's mind boggling
to me that any organization (bank for example) would even *allow* such a
thing to happen. What in the world was the guy cutting the check for the
last measly million thinking of? To me, it sounds like there was no thought
process at all involved in the loan that brought the total up to $900
million. It is small wonder that we had a financial meltdown following
2009. To get back on topic (Trumps evil) I note that Obama has let the
clock run out on the financial people for eight years so their malfeasance
can not now be punished, the statute of limitations kicks in and protect
these simple-minded, crooked bastards. Thanks Obama. Thanks Eric Holder.
Thanks Loretta Lynch.
So will Trump go to his grave with something approaching $900 million in
personal debt. Is there any reason to pay off this debt? Life seems to be
treating him pretty well, he got another airplane, and a helicopter, I
think. Or, at least ones that he can treat as if they were his. He can say
how they are painted and where they go and what brand of caviar they have in
the pantry.
Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed for
bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself was
the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling stake
in it.
Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump
Entertainment
Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the board, but the
company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued to take his name
off the company and its casinos-one of which had already closed, and the
other of which was near closing.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
--
James Harris
Trump's 2016 personal financial-disclosure report lists Trump as a
trustee, president, chairman, or member for more than 530 entities.
Almost half of these companies listed have Trump's name as part of the
company name.
4 Bankruptcies out of over 500 is a damn good track record in the
business world.
Likely a damn site better record than either of you two wannabe
financial wizards have ever had in your lives.
At least he isn't running a scam "foundation" that rakes in millions
from terrorist supporting states and then only gives 5% or less to
charity with the rest going into the pockets of the namesake.
I didn't mean to present myself as a financial wizard. It simply seems to
me that you don't let someone get $900M into debt unless you think he has
$900M. And within a few short years, you find he has a worth of -$900M.
That's a HUGE error, $1.8B! Note that my criticism was not of Trump, but of
the bozos who made the loans. Trump is to be commended for taking those
clowns for all they were worth.

It also seems to me that to have a significant role in 530 entities when
there are only 365 days in a year is spreading the Trump too thin.

I can't see that what Hillary Clinton has done has any bearing at all on
what Trump has done. They are two different people, each with their own
obnoxious traits.
Wexford
2016-11-04 04:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Osmium
Post by First-Post
Post by Osmium
Post by Osmium
Post by James Harris
He has declared bankruptcy multiple times, hasn't he?
As far as I can find out he has never declared personal bankruptcy.
Businesses that were his have delcared bankrupty. He likes to use his
name a lot so some of these may have been owwned by someone else by the
time they declared bakruptcy.
Bankruptcies (or debt protection measures) still prevent debts being paid.
The creditors lose out.
I just searched. This came up on the first page.
The Four Bankruptcies
Where and when: 1991, 1992, 2004, 2009
The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump's companies have entered
bankruptcy.
In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to
build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn't need to use
junk
bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the
casino, but couldn't keep up with interest payments, so his company
declared bankruptcy in 1991. He had to sell his yacht, his airline, and
half his ownership in the casino.
A year later, another of Trump's Atlantic City casinos, the Trump
Plaza, went bust after losing more than $550 million. Trump gave up his
stake but otherwise insulated himself personally from losses, and managed
to keep his CEO title, even though he surrendered any salary or role in
day-to-day operations. By the time all was said and done, he had some $900
million in personal debt.
That $900 million personal debt is a new factoid to me. It's mind boggling
to me that any organization (bank for example) would even *allow* such a
thing to happen. What in the world was the guy cutting the check for the
last measly million thinking of? To me, it sounds like there was no thought
process at all involved in the loan that brought the total up to $900
million. It is small wonder that we had a financial meltdown following
2009. To get back on topic (Trumps evil) I note that Obama has let the
clock run out on the financial people for eight years so their malfeasance
can not now be punished, the statute of limitations kicks in and protect
these simple-minded, crooked bastards. Thanks Obama. Thanks Eric Holder.
Thanks Loretta Lynch.
So will Trump go to his grave with something approaching $900 million in
personal debt. Is there any reason to pay off this debt? Life seems to be
treating him pretty well, he got another airplane, and a helicopter, I
think. Or, at least ones that he can treat as if they were his. He can say
how they are painted and where they go and what brand of caviar they have in
the pantry.
Trump bounced back over the following decade, but by 2004, Trump
Hotels and Casino Resorts was $1.8 billion in debt. The company filed for
bankruptcy and emerged as Trump Entertainment Resorts. Trump himself was
the chairman of the new company, but he no longer had a controlling stake
in it.
Five years later, after the real-estate collapse, Trump Entertainment
Resorts once again went bankrupt. Trump resigned from the board, but the
company retained his name. In 2014, he successfully sued to take his name
off the company and its casinos-one of which had already closed, and the
other of which was near closing.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
--
James Harris
Trump's 2016 personal financial-disclosure report lists Trump as a
trustee, president, chairman, or member for more than 530 entities.
Almost half of these companies listed have Trump's name as part of the
company name.
4 Bankruptcies out of over 500 is a damn good track record in the
business world.
Likely a damn site better record than either of you two wannabe
financial wizards have ever had in your lives.
At least he isn't running a scam "foundation" that rakes in millions
from terrorist supporting states and then only gives 5% or less to
charity with the rest going into the pockets of the namesake.
I didn't mean to present myself as a financial wizard. It simply seems to
me that you don't let someone get $900M into debt unless you think he has
$900M. And within a few short years, you find he has a worth of -$900M.
That's a HUGE error, $1.8B! Note that my criticism was not of Trump, but of
the bozos who made the loans. Trump is to be commended for taking those
clowns for all they were worth.
Why? You think that sort of thing is commendable?
Post by Osmium
It also seems to me that to have a significant role in 530 entities when
there are only 365 days in a year is spreading the Trump too thin.
He has his name plastered on them. Whether he manages them or not is something else.
Post by Osmium
I can't see that what Hillary Clinton has done has any bearing at all on
what Trump has done. They are two different people, each with their own
obnoxious traits.
super70s
2016-11-04 17:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by First-Post
Trump's 2016 personal financial-disclosure report lists Trump as a
trustee, president, chairman, or member for more than 530 entities.
Almost half of these companies listed have Trump's name as part of
the company name.
4 Bankruptcies out of over 500 is a damn good track record in the
business world.
A laughable rationalization, all those entities except a handful are
just set up for tax shelters.

You actually think he spends his time overseeing over 500 businesses?
I have a casino in NJ to sell you.

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