Discussion:
Fact Checking the first Presidential Debate
(too old to reply)
FPP
2016-09-27 04:53:03 UTC
Permalink
So far, I guess it was a bad night for Donald Trump to give up sniffing glue...

Loading Image...
Trump falsely claims U.S. allies don't pay for troop presence.
Trump's housing discrimination lawsuit ranks among largest in U.S. history
Trump again wrongly pins birther blame on Clinton
Trump is way off on how much of NATO’s budget is paid by the U.S.
Trump grossly exaggerates Palm Beach’s wealth
Trump [again] says he opposed the Iraq War. That's still false.
Trump wrong on ISIS timeline
Trump incorrectly claims he was endorsed by ICE
Trump is wrong: ‘Stop and frisk’ was ruled unconstitutional
Clinton right about Trump's bankruptcies
Trump in denial about his own debt comments
Clinton is correct about the wealthy benefiting from Trump tax plan
Trump falsely claims he can't release his tax returns
The ‘political hacks’ Trump says are doing trade deals are actually
career government employees
Trump wrong on ISIS claims
Trump wrong about size of Clinton’s tax plan
Trump is exaggerating Clinton's '30 years' in national policy
Fact: Trump claimed climate change is a hoax created by China
Clinton is right about Trump's 'very small' $14 million loan
Trump wrong on Michigan job losses
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-presidential-debate-fact-check/1
--
REP. JOHN DUNCAN (R): "Do you understand that great numbers of people
feel, now, that there's one standard of justice for the Clintons and
another for regular people?"

COMEY: "Yeah, I've heard that a lot... it's NOT TRUE, but I've heard
it a lot."
Ubiquitous
2016-09-27 10:27:36 UTC
Permalink
PolitiFact Calls Something “True” When Bernie Said It, “False” When Trump Says It
By Robert Gehl

http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/politifact-calls-something-true-when-bernie-said-it-false-when-trump-says-it
--
Hillary's portion of the debate was sponsored by:
Luden's
Mom & Pop Servers
BleachBit
Rent-a-Stool
The delete button
The 5th Amendment
Fred Oinka
2016-09-27 12:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
So far, I guess it was a bad night for Donald Trump to give up sniffing glue...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtVC-3iVIAAH3vv.jpg
Trump falsely claims U.S. allies don't pay for troop presence.
Trump's housing discrimination lawsuit ranks among largest in U.S. history
Trump again wrongly pins birther blame on Clinton
Trump is way off on how much of NATO’s budget is paid by the U.S.
Trump grossly exaggerates Palm Beach’s wealth
Trump [again] says he opposed the Iraq War. That's still false.
Trump wrong on ISIS timeline
Trump incorrectly claims he was endorsed by ICE
Trump is wrong: ‘Stop and frisk’ was ruled unconstitutional
Clinton right about Trump's bankruptcies
Trump in denial about his own debt comments
Clinton is correct about the wealthy benefiting from Trump tax plan
Trump falsely claims he can't release his tax returns
The ‘political hacks’ Trump says are doing trade deals are actually
career government employees
Trump wrong on ISIS claims
Trump wrong about size of Clinton’s tax plan
Trump is exaggerating Clinton's '30 years' in national policy
Fact: Trump claimed climate change is a hoax created by China
Clinton is right about Trump's 'very small' $14 million loan
Trump wrong on Michigan job losses
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-presidential-debate-fact-check/1
--
REP. JOHN DUNCAN (R): "Do you understand that great numbers of people
feel, now, that there's one standard of justice for the Clintons and
another for regular people?"
COMEY: "Yeah, I've heard that a lot... it's NOT TRUE, but I've heard
it a lot."
Here's a fact for you: All of the passion and energy of this election is firmly in Trump's camp. Sucks to be you!
LOL
Ubiquitous
2016-09-27 13:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Eight examples where ‘fact-checking’ became opinion journalism
By Kelly Riddell

The media coverage on the presidential contest seems to have come
down to “fact-checking,” with The New York Times, The Washington
Post and Politico each doing articles depicting Donald Trump’s lies
on the campaign trail.

This is dangerous territory for the profession, for as Wall Street
Journal columnist James Taranto opined on Twitter: ” ‘Fact checking’
is opinion journalism pretending to be some sort of heightened
objectivity.”

Why you ask? Because most “fact-checkers” are merely liberal
journalists looking to prove their preconceived narrative. They
cherry-pick the statements to “fact-check” and then decide which
data to back it up with. Statistics can be manipulated — for every
study coming out of the Brookings Institute, the Heritage Foundation
can have a counter argument, depending on the methodology and
surveys used. Moreover, much of what they decide to “fact-check” is
subjective at best. Nothing that can be pinned down with undisputed
data.

In addition, many times politicians use hyperbole to extenuate a
larger point — and many times these “fact-checkers” ignore the
larger point to focus on the validity of the minutia. Here are the
eight most outrageous “fact-checks” used against Mr. Trump in the
last few weeks, that explain why the American public’s trust in the
media is at an all-time low.

The New York Times:

(1) Trumpquote: “Do people notice Hillary is copying my airplane
rallies — she puts the plane behind her like I have been doing from
the beginning.” (Twitter, Sept. 20)

Fact-check: “He did not invent the tarmac rally or the campaign-
plane backdrop.”

(2) Trump quote/assertions: “Mrs. Clinton destroyed 13 smartphones
with a hammer while she was secretary of state.” (Speeches in
Florida, Sept. 15 and Sept. 19)

Fact-check: “An aide told the FBI of only two occasions in which
phones were destroyed by a hammer.”

(3) Trump quote: “We have cities that are far more dangerous than
Afghanistan.”

Fact-check: “No American city resembles a war zone, though crime has
risen lately in some, like Chicago. Urban violence has fallen
precipitously over the past 25 years.”

Of note, The New York Times wrote on Sept. 9 that “murder rates rose
in a quarter of the nation’s 100 largest cities, and that “the
number of cities where rates rose significantly was the largest
since the height of violent crime in the early 1990s.”

Politico:

(4) Trumpquote: “We’re presiding over something the world has not
seen. The level of evil is unbelievable.” (Sept. 19, Fort Myers,
Florida, rally)

Fact-check: “Judging one ‘level of evil’ against another is
subjective, but other groups in recent history have without any
question engaged in as widespread killing of civilians as ISIS.”

(5) Trump quote: “Hillary Clinton is raising your taxes, it’s a very
substantial tax increase.” (Sept. 20 High Point, North Carolina,
rally, and a similar statement at least one other time)

Fact-check: “Clinton has not released the full details of her tax
plan, but she has sworn off tax hikes for households earning less
than $250,000 a year. The vast majority of tax increases she
proposes levying affect the highest earners.”

Of note, this fact-check says Mrs. Clinton will, indeed raise taxes.
Additionally, in December, when ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos
asked her “Is that a rock-solid promise?” (on not raising taxes on
households earning less than $250,000) she hedged. “Well,” she said,
“it certainly is my goal.”

(6) Trump quote: “Hillary Clinton wants to approve the Trans-Pacific
Partnership; that deal will be a disaster for North Carolina, for
every state. Your state.” (Sept. 20, High Point, North Carolina,
rally)

Fact-check: “CNN tracked 45 instances in which Clinton supported the
TPP, including in 2012 when she called it the “gold standard” of
trade deals. But facing a challenge to her left from Bernie Sanders,
Clinton this year said she opposed it and would continue to as
president. The trade pact’s economic impacts are hotly debated, with
some arguing it will hurt domestic workers while others arguing it
will spur further exports and economic growth.”

Just to be clear, Politico is calling Mr. Trump a liar for calling
out Mrs. Clinton’s flip-flop on TPP. Not to mention, her vice
presidential candidate Tim Kaine was a vocal advocate of the trade-
agreement for the Obama administration in Virginia (before he
denounced it, once jumping on her ticket).

The Washington Post

(7) Trump quote: “The policies he [Rudolph Giuliani] put into place
ultimately brought down crime by 76 percent and murder in New York
by 84 percent.” (Speech in Pittsburgh, Sept. 22, 2016)

Fact-check: “It’s debatable whether the stop-and-frisk policies had
such a direct impact on crime, as Trump suggests. Crime is affected
by many factors, and New York’s decline in crime mirrored the
decline in many other major cities at the time.”

The Post, after admitting the statistics were “debatable” still gave
the assertion three Pinocchios. They used their preferable
statistics to justify, saying Mr. Trump‘ “cherry-picked” his.

(8) “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther
controversy. I finished it. I finished it, you know what I mean.
President Barack Obama was born in the United States, period.”
(Donald Trump, news conference, Sept. 16, 2016)

Fact-check: “Let’s review this again: No, Clinton and her campaign
did not start the “birther” controversy.”

Although Mrs. Clinton herself can’t be tied to starting or spreading
the birther conspiracy, her 2008 presidential campaign can. Mrs.
Clinton’s former campaign manager said they had to fire a staffer
(she couldn’t remember if he or she was paid or not) for sending an
email relating to Mr. Obama’s birthplace.

Moreover, the former Washington, D.C., bureau chief of McClatchy
alleged Clinton ally Sidney Blumenthal asked him to investigate Mr.
Obama’s birthplace, essentially starting a whisper campaign.
McClatchy even sent a reporter to Kenya.

The Washington Post’s own fact-checker Michelle Ye Hee Lee admitted
she heard about Mr. Blumenthal’s whisper campaign, so she called him
and he said it wasn’t true (Remember: Mr. Blumenthal was responsible
for spreading whisper campaigns about Monica Lewinsky in the 1990s —
it’s been documented). But, The Washington Post fact-checker decided
to believe Mr. Blumenthal, and gave Mr. Trump four Pinocchios
instead.
--
Hillary's portion of the debate was sponsored by:
Luden's
Mom & Pop Servers
BleachBit
Rent-a-Stool
The delete button
The 5th Amendment
Ubiquitous
2016-09-28 17:55:34 UTC
Permalink
We have long argued that the journalistic genre known as “fact
checking” is a corruption of journalism. “The ‘fact check’ is opinion
journalism or criticism, masquerading as straight news,” we wrote in
2008. “The object is not merely to report facts but to pass a
judgment.”

Eight years later, we’d amend that slightly. “Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.

Lately the “fact checkers” have been waging a campaign to portray
Donald Trump as a contemporaneous supporter of the Iraq war, contrary
to his assertions that he was an opponent. In Monday’s debate, Hillary
Clinton pleaded for their help: “I hope the fact checkers are turning
up the volume and really working hard. Donald supported the invasion
of Iraq.” Moderator Lester Holt obliged, basing a question to Trump on
the premise that the matter was settled: “You supported the war in
Iraq before the invasion.”

Trump somewhat inarticulately rebutted the claim: “The record shows
that I’m right. When I did an interview with Howard Stern, very
lightly, the first time anybody’s asked me that, I said, very lightly,
I don’t know, maybe, who knows.”

What Trump actually said on Sept. 11, 2002, when Stern asked him if he
favored an invasion, was: “Yeah, I guess so.” That was an affirmative
statement, but a highly equivocal one. Is it fair or accurate to
characterize it as sufficient to establish that Trump was a
“supporter”? In our opinion, no. He might well have had second
thoughts immediately after getting off the air with Stern.

He certainly had second thoughts in the ensuing months, and he came to
oppose the invasion long before Mrs. Clinton did. Even FactCheck.org
was unable to come up with any other Trump statement supportive of the
decision to go to war. By December 2003, according to the site’s
timeline, Trump was observing (in an interview with Fox News Channel’s
Neil Cavuto) that “a lot of people” were “questioning the whole
concept of going in, in the first place.” Five years later, according
to PolitiFact.com, Trump was calling for President Bush’s impeachment
because, as he told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, “he got us into the war with
lies.”

Trump repeated that last claim in a February debate in South
Carolina (in the transcript at the link, the second Trump quote
is erroneously attributed to moderator John Dickerson):

Trump: George [W.] Bush made a mistake. We can make mistakes.
But that one was a beauty. We should have never been in Iraq.
We have destabilized the Middle East.

Dickerson: But so I’m going to—so you still think he should be
impeached?

Jeb Bush: I think it’s my turn, isn’t it?

Trump: You do whatever you want. You call it whatever you want.
I want to tell you. They lied. They said there were weapons of
mass destruction, there were none. And they knew there were none.
There were no weapons of mass destruction.

When Trump said that, it shocked many conservative commentators and
intellectuals, including the Weekly Standard’s Jonathan Last:

Nine months ago, if you had asked Sarah Palin, Scott
Brown, Jerry Falwell Jr., or Ann Coulter whether they
would endorse a figure who takes the Code Pink, Michael
Moore, MoveOn.org view of Iraq (”Bush lied, people
died”), one suspects they all would have recoiled at
the prospect. Yet in the hours after Trump insisted
that George W. Bush intentionally lied the country into
war, not one of the major figures who have endorsed him
was willing to contradict his claim. . . .

One needn’t be an admirer of George W. Bush, or a
believer in his freedom agenda, or even a supporter of
the Iraq war to understand how pernicious this is.
Whatever your views on the wisdom of Iraq, no serious
person believes that Bush masterminded a massive fraud,
with the help of his cabinet and the entire national
security apparatus; that his “lies” then managed to
fool the governments and intelligence agencies of a
dozen allies; and that, somehow, none of the evidence
of this scheme ever managed to leak into the open.

Which leads to an obvious question: Where were the “fact checkers” in
February, when Trump made that patently false claim? The only related
“fact check” we could find was one from FactCheck.org, rebutting
Trump’s denial, a month later, that he had said what he said: “I
didn’t say lie. I said he may have lied. I don’t know.” It was a rare
example of a “fact check” that simply checked a fact.

A funny thing happened after the South Carolina debate: Trump won the
state’s primary and went on to win the nomination. The Republican
electorate did not see Trump’s opposition to the Iraq war, or even his
endorsement of the “Code Pink, Michael Moore, MoveOn.org view of
Iraq,” as disqualifying.

“[Trump] secured the Republican nomination against a field of 16
candidates described last summer by George F. Will as ‘the most
impressive since 1980, and perhaps the most talent-rich since the
party first had a presidential nominee, in 1856,’ ” notes William
Voegeli in the Claremont Review of Books:

How did Trump achieve this? One crucial difference from all
those competitors is that he could deplore the Middle East
policies of both Presidents Bush and Obama as “a tremendous
disservice” and a “disaster.” No other GOP candidate possessed
so much leeway to denounce the war in Iraq, the most recent
Republican president’s “signature idea,” as the New York Times’s
Ross Douthat termed it. At the other end of the spectrum of 17
candidates, Jeb Bush’s campaign never recovered from making a
terrible first impression: the 12 years since the launch of
Operation Iraqi Freedom had, apparently, been too little time
for him to form an opinion as to whether, knowing what we do
now, his brother’s decision to invade that country had been a
good idea.

It’s not hard to see why Republican voters might have been more
attracted by Trump’s repudiation of the Iraq war than repelled by the
bumptious and scurrilous way in which he expressed it. That conflict
turned out to be a strategic disaster for the U.S., in part (as Trump
has noted) because of Obama’s decision to withdraw all troops in 2011.

It also turned out to be a _political_ disaster for the GOP. After
re-electing George W. Bush, voters turned against the war. They also
turned against the Republican Party, handing control of Congress to
the Democrats in 2006 and the White House to an antiwar Democrat two
years later, after he defeated the still pro-war Mrs. Clinton for the
party’s nomination.




The Iraq war helped make ObamaCare, and much else that is anathema to
GOP voters, possible. Trump offered Republicans an opportunity to move
beyond the Iraq mistake. Under the pretense of “fact checking,”
journalists now are furiously attempting to scuttle that opportunity.
--
HRC needed 4 days to "rest up" for a 90 min debate in which she
bragged about sitting for 11 hrs once.
Sorry to those who work a 10 hr shift
Siri Cruise
2016-09-28 18:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Eight years later, we’d amend that slightly. “Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.
Lately the “fact checkers” have been waging a campaign to portray
Donald Trump as a contemporaneous supporter of the Iraq war, contrary
to his assertions that he was an opponent. In Monday’s debate, Hillary
What Trump actually said on Sept. 11, 2002, when Stern asked him if he
favored an invasion, was: “Yeah, I guess so.” That was an affirmative
statement, but a highly equivocal one. Is it fair or accurate to
It was an affirmative statement. The fact checking worked. Drumpf lied. If he
had said he initially supported it, then changed his mind, that would've been
accurate.
Post by Ubiquitous
characterize it as sufficient to establish that Trump was a
“supporter”? In our opinion, no. He might well have had second
thoughts immediately after getting off the air with Stern.
Your opinion is not a fact. What he is recorded as saying is a fact. Facts are
stubborn things.
Post by Ubiquitous
He certainly had second thoughts in the ensuing months, and he came to
And he had been honest on the matter, it would not be a controversy. He lied, he
thought he could get away, and now he's stuck.
Post by Ubiquitous
oppose the invasion long before Mrs. Clinton did. Even FactCheck.org
Clinton has been more honest. The discussion on her is not whether she lied, but
whether she is too quick to to use war.
Post by Ubiquitous
The Iraq war helped make ObamaCare, and much else that is anathema to
GOP voters, possible. Trump offered Republicans an opportunity to move
beyond the Iraq mistake. Under the pretense of “fact checking,”
journalists now are furiously attempting to scuttle that opportunity.
So the ends justify the means.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
If you assume the final scene is a dying delusion as Tom Cruise drowns below
the Louvre, then Edge of Tomorrow has a happy ending. Kill Tom repeat..
Ubiquitous
2016-09-28 18:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Ubiquitous
Eight years later, we’d amend that slightly. “Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.
Lately the “fact checkers” have been waging a campaign to portray
Donald Trump as a contemporaneous supporter of the Iraq war, contrary
to his assertions that he was an opponent. In Monday’s debate, Hillary
What Trump actually said on Sept. 11, 2002, when Stern asked him if he
favored an invasion, was: “Yeah, I guess so.” That was an affirmative
statement, but a highly equivocal one. Is it fair or accurate to
It was an affirmative statement. The fact checking worked. Drumpf
Epithet noted. Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.
--
HRC needed 4 days to "rest up" for a 90 min debate in which she
bragged about sitting for 11 hrs once.
Sorry to those who work a 10 hr shift
FPP
2016-09-28 22:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Ubiquitous
Eight years later, we’d amend that slightly. “Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.
Lately the “fact checkers” have been waging a campaign to portray
Donald Trump as a contemporaneous supporter of the Iraq war, contrary
to his assertions that he was an opponent. In Monday’s debate, Hillary
What Trump actually said on Sept. 11, 2002, when Stern asked him if he
favored an invasion, was: “Yeah, I guess so.” That was an affirmative
statement, but a highly equivocal one. Is it fair or accurate to
It was an affirmative statement. The fact checking worked. Drumpf
Epithet noted. Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.
Wow! I sure didn't see that reply coming.
You are a continual delight... mostly to flies. They just love to
feast on shit.

Note to Siri Cruise <***@yahoo.com> - you KNOW you're winning an
argument with Ubi when he changes the "Follow-up To" headers so that
your replies are not seen in the relevant groups.

It's what the coward does when he knows he's lost an argument... he
tries to rig the game.
Somehow, he doesn't quite get the fact that it doesn't work for shit.
Or maybe he does... who knows?
--
I have to admit, in the First Presidential Debate, Hillary Clinton did
"women's work".
She absolutely mopped the floor with Trump...
Siri Cruise
2016-09-28 23:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Ubiquitous
Eight years later, we’d amend that slightly. “Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.
Lately the “fact checkers” have been waging a campaign to portray
Donald Trump as a contemporaneous supporter of the Iraq war, contrary
to his assertions that he was an opponent. In Monday’s debate, Hillary
What Trump actually said on Sept. 11, 2002, when Stern asked him if he
favored an invasion, was: “Yeah, I guess so.” That was an affirmative
statement, but a highly equivocal one. Is it fair or accurate to
It was an affirmative statement. The fact checking worked. Drumpf
Epithet noted. Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.
Run away!
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
If you assume the final scene is a dying delusion as Tom Cruise drowns below
the Louvre, then Edge of Tomorrow has a happy ending. Kill Tom repeat..
FPP
2016-09-28 22:00:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
“Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.
Facts are facts. Deal with it.
Post by Ubiquitous
WASHINGTON—Again, there was no contest: Donald Trump was by far more
dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
At their first presidential debate, on Monday night in New York, Trump
made 34 false claims to Clinton’s four false claims, continuing his
pattern of unprecedented serial lying.
1) Falsely said “you’re wrong” when the moderator told him a judge
ruled New York City’s “stop and frisk” program unconstitutional. (That
happened in 2013.)
2) Falsely said he had four business bankruptcies. (Clinton was correct
— it’s six.)
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump points toward Democratic
presidential nominee Hillary Clinton during the presidential debate in
New York Monday. Trump said 34 false things, Clinton 4.
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump points toward Democratic
presidential nominee Hillary Clinton during the presidential debate in
New York Monday. Trump said 34 false things, Clinton 4. (Joe Raedle /
AP)
3) Falsely said he “never said” that pregnancy is an inconvenience to
employers. (In 2004, he said precisely that: pregnancy is "a wonderful
thing for the woman, it's a wonderful thing for the husband, it's
certainly an inconvenience for a business. And whether people want to
say that or not, the fact is it is an inconvenience for a person that
is running a business.")
4) Falsely said “I did not. I did not” to Clinton’s charge that he
on Twitter in 2012: “The concept of global warming was created by and
for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.”
In 2014, he tweeted, “Snowing in Texas and Louisiana, record setting
freezing temperatures throughout the country and beyond. Global warming
is an expensive hoax!”)
5) Falsely said, “Wrong, wrong” when Clinton said he supported the
invasion of Iraq. (He publicly supported the war; there is no evidence
he changed his mind until after the war.)
6) Falsely said, “They did an article in a major magazine, shortly
after the war started. I think in '04. But they did an article which
had me totally against the war in Iraq.” (The article, in Esquire, was
not “shortly after the war started”— it was 17 months into the war.)
7) Falsely characterized interviews about Iraq with Howard Stern and
Neil Cavuto: “The record shows that I'm right. When I did an interview
with Howard Stern, very lightly, first time anyone's asked me that, I
said, very lightly, I don't know, maybe, who knows? Essentially. I then
did an interview with Neil Cavuto.” (Trump did not say “I don’t know,
maybe, who knows” to Stern in 2002; in fact, he said, “Yeah, I guess
so. I wish the first time it was done correctly.” In the interview with
Cavuto, he did not take an actual position, saying: “Well, he has
either got to do something or not do something.”
8) Falsely asserted that Clinton has “been fighting ISIS (her) entire
adult life.” (ISIS was founded after Clinton turned 50.)
9) Falsely said, “And now you want to approve Trans-Pacific
Partnership.” (Clinton made a significant false claim on this subject
too; see below. But it is false that she “now” wants to approve it.
Though she supported it as secretary of state, she is campaigning in
opposition to it.)
10) Falsely said murder has increased in New York City under the
current mayor who opposes stop and frisk: “Murders are up. All right.
You check it.” (In Bill de Blasio’s first year, 2014, the number of
murders hit another historic low: 328. The city is still near that
pace; there have been 246 so far this year, down from last year.)
11) Falsely said, “As far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much
from tax returns. That I can tell you. You learn a lot from financial
disclosure.” (Tax returns provide several additional kinds of detailed
information.)
12) Falsely said of his tax returns, “I don't mind releasing. I'm under
a routine audit. And it'll be released. And as soon as the audit's
finished, it will be released.” (Trump is also refusing to release tax
returns from 2002 to 2008, years his lawyer says are no longer under
audit. One of his sons has acknowledged that he is not releasing the
returns because it would hurt his political “narrative.”)
13) Falsely said, “ISIS formed in this vacuum created by Barack Obama
and Secretary Clinton.” (ISIS was created before Obama became president
and Clinton became secretary of state. While it gained strength during
their tenures, it is false to say it “formed” then.)
14) Falsely said he “just got today” the endorsement of the Fraternal
Order of Police. (The endorsement was delivered 10 days ago.)
15) Falsely said, “We have a Fed that's doing political things. This
Janet Yellen of the Fed. The Fed is doing political — by keeping the
interest rates at this level.” (There is no evidence that Yellen has
kept rates low to help Obama or Clinton, as Trump is suggesting. In
fact, he himself endorsed her strategy on CNBC in May.)
16) Falsely said Clinton was uttering “lies” when she said he had said
nuclear war in East Asia would be “fine,” and that he had said “have a
good time, folks.” (In Wisconsin in April, Trump said he was fine with
Japan obtaining nuclear weapons for a war against North Korea, and
added: “It would be a terrible thing but if they do, they do . . . Good
luck. Enjoy yourself, folks.”)
17) Falsely said, “My father gave me a very small loan in 1975, and I
built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars.”
(Trump is greatly understating his father’s help. The loan, he has
previously said, was $1 million. Journalists have discovered that he
actually received $14 million in loans from his father as he started
his career.)
18) Falsely claimed, on the “birther” conspiracy, that “nobody was
pressing it” after 2011. (Trump repeatedly tweeted and spoke about the
subject in the following years. In 2013, for example, he tweeted, “How
amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s
“birth certificate” died in plane crash today. All others lived.”)
19) Falsely said the U.S. trade deficit “with all of the countries that
we do business with” is “almost $800 billion a year.” (The trade
deficit last year was $532 billion. It rises to $746 billion when only
goods are counted, not the services at which the U.S. excels, but Trump
did not specify he was excluding the U.S.’s strength.)
20) Falsely said “wrong, wrong” when Clinton told him, “You even at one
time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt
of the United States.” (While he quickly backtracked from this May
suggestion, he did make it at one time.)
21) Falsely said, “In addition, I was just endorsed by ICE. They've
never endorsed anybody before on immigration. I was just endorsed by
ICE.” (Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a government agency that
does not endorse candidates. Trump was actually endorsed by a union of
some of its employees, the National Immigration and Customs Enforcement
(ICE) Council.)
22) Falsely denied that he has been “praiseworthy of Vladimir Putin.”
(Trump has praised Putin repeatedly, even calling him a superior leader
to Obama.)
23) Falsely said, “They're using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild
China.” (This makes no sense — the U.S. is a net borrower from China,
not the other way around, as Trump himself frequently notes.)
24) Falsely claimed Clinton has “no plan” on the economy. (He can
reasonably allege that it is a bad plan, but it exists in great detail.)
25) Falsely said NATO had not “focus(ed) on terror” before he urged it
to do so. (From Politifact: “NATO involvement in counter-terrorism
issued its first formal declaration on terrorism in 1980, and it became
a significant issue for the alliance on Sept. 11, 2001, said Lisa
Sawyer Samp, a senior fellow in the international security program of
the Center for Strategic and International Studies.”)
26) Falsely said of China, “They're devaluing their currency, and
there's nobody in our government to fight them.” (The International
Monetary Fund declared last year that China’s currency is “no longer
devalued.” Binyamin Applebaum of the New York Times wrote: “There is no
evidence that China is presently engaging in currency devaluation.”)
27) Falsely said, of nuclear weapons, “Russia has been expanding their
— they have a much newer capability than we do. We have not been
updating from the new standpoint.” (In fact, the U.S. is currently in
the midst of a trillion-dollar effort the New York Times has called a
“nationwide wave of atomic revitalization that includes plans for a new
generation of weapon carriers.”)
28) Falsely claimed that Daesh (also known as the Islamic State) has “a
lot of the oil in Libya.” (Independent experts say this is false. “They
wanted to disrupt it, destroy it, not to run it," energy analyst
Matthew Bey told CNBC earlier this month. "They had control of fields
around (the city of) Sirte for a while, but they have since been mostly
pushed from that area, and never had control of any upstream activity.”)
29) Falsely alleged that the Clinton campaign played a high-level role
in the birther conspiracy theory: “Patti Solis Doyle was on Wolf
Blitzer saying that this happened.” (Trump completely mischaracterized
her CNN remarks; she had said that a campaign volunteer who forwarded a
birther email was fired.)
30) Falsely described Mexico’s value-added tax as a kind of trade
barrier: “When we sell into Mexico, there's a tax. When they sell in —
automatic, 16 percent, approximately. When they sell into us, there's
no tax. It's a defective agreement.” (This is a gross misunderstanding
of how a VAT works.)
31) Falsely said, “She spent hundreds of millions of dollars on
negative ads on me.” (Clinton has spent about $100 million in total
advertising, CBS reports.)
32) Falsely said of U.S. companies hoarding cash overseas: “They can’t
bring their money back into our country because of bureaucratic red
tape because they can’t get together.” (The issue is the high U.S.
corporate tax rate, not bureaucracy; Trump did note the tax rate a
little earlier.)
33) Falsely suggested that Ford’s outsourcing of small car production
to Mexico will mean “thousands of jobs leaving Michigan.” (Ford is
shifting the production of new products to the affected plants and not
cutting any jobs.)
34) Falsely called Palm Beach, Florida “probably the wealthiest
community there is in the world.” (Palm Beach is not even the
wealthiest community in America, let alone the world. The Palm Beach
Post put it at number three in the country; other rankings, with
different measures of wealth, have it lower.)
35) Misleadingly said to Clinton, “You are going to approve one of the
biggest tax increases in history.” (Clinton’s increases are large, but
they are only on wealthy people.)
36) Misleadingly said, “In New York City, stop and frisk, we had 2,200
murders, and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders.” (It is a
great exaggeration to attribute the entire decline to stop and frisk.
Crime declined massively around the country during this period,
including in cities that did not use the practice.)
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/09/27/donald-trump-said-34-false-things-at-first-presidential-debate.html
--
I have to admit, in the First Presidential Debate, Hillary Clinton did
"women's work".
She absolutely mopped the floor with Trump...
Fred Oinka
2016-09-29 01:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
“Fact checking” doesn’t
pretend to be straight news exactly, but something more authoritative.
The conceit of the “fact checker” is that he has some sort of
heightened level of objectivity qualifying him to render verdicts in
matters of public controversy.
Facts are facts. Deal with it.
WASHINGTON—Again, there was no contest: Donald Trump was by far more
dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
At their first presidential debate, on Monday night in New York, Trump
made 34 false claims to Clinton’s four false claims, continuing his
pattern of unprecedented serial lying.
1) Falsely said “you’re wrong” when the moderator told him a judge
ruled New York City’s “stop and frisk” program unconstitutional. (That
happened in 2013.)
2) Falsely said he had four business bankruptcies. (Clinton was correct
— it’s six.)
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump points toward Democratic
presidential nominee Hillary Clinton during the presidential debate in
New York Monday. Trump said 34 false things, Clinton 4.
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump points toward Democratic
presidential nominee Hillary Clinton during the presidential debate in
New York Monday. Trump said 34 false things, Clinton 4. (Joe Raedle /
AP)
3) Falsely said he “never said” that pregnancy is an inconvenience to
employers. (In 2004, he said precisely that: pregnancy is "a wonderful
thing for the woman, it's a wonderful thing for the husband, it's
certainly an inconvenience for a business. And whether people want to
say that or not, the fact is it is an inconvenience for a person that
is running a business.")
4) Falsely said “I did not. I did not” to Clinton’s charge that he
on Twitter in 2012: “The concept of global warming was created by and
for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.”
In 2014, he tweeted, “Snowing in Texas and Louisiana, record setting
freezing temperatures throughout the country and beyond. Global warming
is an expensive hoax!”)
5) Falsely said, “Wrong, wrong” when Clinton said he supported the
invasion of Iraq. (He publicly supported the war; there is no evidence
he changed his mind until after the war.)
6) Falsely said, “They did an article in a major magazine, shortly
after the war started. I think in '04. But they did an article which
had me totally against the war in Iraq.” (The article, in Esquire, was
not “shortly after the war started”— it was 17 months into the war.)
7) Falsely characterized interviews about Iraq with Howard Stern and
Neil Cavuto: “The record shows that I'm right. When I did an interview
with Howard Stern, very lightly, first time anyone's asked me that, I
said, very lightly, I don't know, maybe, who knows? Essentially. I then
did an interview with Neil Cavuto.” (Trump did not say “I don’t know,
maybe, who knows” to Stern in 2002; in fact, he said, “Yeah, I guess
so. I wish the first time it was done correctly.” In the interview with
Cavuto, he did not take an actual position, saying: “Well, he has
either got to do something or not do something.”
8) Falsely asserted that Clinton has “been fighting ISIS (her) entire
adult life.” (ISIS was founded after Clinton turned 50.)
9) Falsely said, “And now you want to approve Trans-Pacific
Partnership.” (Clinton made a significant false claim on this subject
too; see below. But it is false that she “now” wants to approve it.
Though she supported it as secretary of state, she is campaigning in
opposition to it.)
10) Falsely said murder has increased in New York City under the
current mayor who opposes stop and frisk: “Murders are up. All right.
You check it.” (In Bill de Blasio’s first year, 2014, the number of
murders hit another historic low: 328. The city is still near that
pace; there have been 246 so far this year, down from last year.)
11) Falsely said, “As far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much
from tax returns. That I can tell you. You learn a lot from financial
disclosure.” (Tax returns provide several additional kinds of detailed
information.)
12) Falsely said of his tax returns, “I don't mind releasing. I'm under
a routine audit. And it'll be released. And as soon as the audit's
finished, it will be released.” (Trump is also refusing to release tax
returns from 2002 to 2008, years his lawyer says are no longer under
audit. One of his sons has acknowledged that he is not releasing the
returns because it would hurt his political “narrative.”)
13) Falsely said, “ISIS formed in this vacuum created by Barack Obama
and Secretary Clinton.” (ISIS was created before Obama became president
and Clinton became secretary of state. While it gained strength during
their tenures, it is false to say it “formed” then.)
14) Falsely said he “just got today” the endorsement of the Fraternal
Order of Police. (The endorsement was delivered 10 days ago.)
15) Falsely said, “We have a Fed that's doing political things. This
Janet Yellen of the Fed. The Fed is doing political — by keeping the
interest rates at this level.” (There is no evidence that Yellen has
kept rates low to help Obama or Clinton, as Trump is suggesting. In
fact, he himself endorsed her strategy on CNBC in May.)
16) Falsely said Clinton was uttering “lies” when she said he had said
nuclear war in East Asia would be “fine,” and that he had said “have a
good time, folks.” (In Wisconsin in April, Trump said he was fine with
Japan obtaining nuclear weapons for a war against North Korea, and
added: “It would be a terrible thing but if they do, they do . . . Good
luck. Enjoy yourself, folks.”)
17) Falsely said, “My father gave me a very small loan in 1975, and I
built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars.”
(Trump is greatly understating his father’s help. The loan, he has
previously said, was $1 million. Journalists have discovered that he
actually received $14 million in loans from his father as he started
his career.)
18) Falsely claimed, on the “birther” conspiracy, that “nobody was
pressing it” after 2011. (Trump repeatedly tweeted and spoke about the
subject in the following years. In 2013, for example, he tweeted, “How
amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s
“birth certificate” died in plane crash today. All others lived.”)
19) Falsely said the U.S. trade deficit “with all of the countries that
we do business with” is “almost $800 billion a year.” (The trade
deficit last year was $532 billion. It rises to $746 billion when only
goods are counted, not the services at which the U.S. excels, but Trump
did not specify he was excluding the U.S.’s strength.)
20) Falsely said “wrong, wrong” when Clinton told him, “You even at one
time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt
of the United States.” (While he quickly backtracked from this May
suggestion, he did make it at one time.)
21) Falsely said, “In addition, I was just endorsed by ICE. They've
never endorsed anybody before on immigration. I was just endorsed by
ICE.” (Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a government agency that
does not endorse candidates. Trump was actually endorsed by a union of
some of its employees, the National Immigration and Customs Enforcement
(ICE) Council.)
22) Falsely denied that he has been “praiseworthy of Vladimir Putin.”
(Trump has praised Putin repeatedly, even calling him a superior leader
to Obama.)
23) Falsely said, “They're using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild
China.” (This makes no sense — the U.S. is a net borrower from China,
not the other way around, as Trump himself frequently notes.)
24) Falsely claimed Clinton has “no plan” on the economy. (He can
reasonably allege that it is a bad plan, but it exists in great detail.)
25) Falsely said NATO had not “focus(ed) on terror” before he urged it
to do so. (From Politifact: “NATO involvement in counter-terrorism
issued its first formal declaration on terrorism in 1980, and it became
a significant issue for the alliance on Sept. 11, 2001, said Lisa
Sawyer Samp, a senior fellow in the international security program of
the Center for Strategic and International Studies.”)
26) Falsely said of China, “They're devaluing their currency, and
there's nobody in our government to fight them.” (The International
Monetary Fund declared last year that China’s currency is “no longer
devalued.” Binyamin Applebaum of the New York Times wrote: “There is no
evidence that China is presently engaging in currency devaluation.”)
27) Falsely said, of nuclear weapons, “Russia has been expanding their
— they have a much newer capability than we do. We have not been
updating from the new standpoint.” (In fact, the U.S. is currently in
the midst of a trillion-dollar effort the New York Times has called a
“nationwide wave of atomic revitalization that includes plans for a new
generation of weapon carriers.”)
28) Falsely claimed that Daesh (also known as the Islamic State) has “a
lot of the oil in Libya.” (Independent experts say this is false. “They
wanted to disrupt it, destroy it, not to run it," energy analyst
Matthew Bey told CNBC earlier this month. "They had control of fields
around (the city of) Sirte for a while, but they have since been mostly
pushed from that area, and never had control of any upstream activity.”)
29) Falsely alleged that the Clinton campaign played a high-level role
in the birther conspiracy theory: “Patti Solis Doyle was on Wolf
Blitzer saying that this happened.” (Trump completely mischaracterized
her CNN remarks; she had said that a campaign volunteer who forwarded a
birther email was fired.)
30) Falsely described Mexico’s value-added tax as a kind of trade
barrier: “When we sell into Mexico, there's a tax. When they sell in —
automatic, 16 percent, approximately. When they sell into us, there's
no tax. It's a defective agreement.” (This is a gross misunderstanding
of how a VAT works.)
31) Falsely said, “She spent hundreds of millions of dollars on
negative ads on me.” (Clinton has spent about $100 million in total
advertising, CBS reports.)
32) Falsely said of U.S. companies hoarding cash overseas: “They can’t
bring their money back into our country because of bureaucratic red
tape because they can’t get together.” (The issue is the high U.S.
corporate tax rate, not bureaucracy; Trump did note the tax rate a
little earlier.)
33) Falsely suggested that Ford’s outsourcing of small car production
to Mexico will mean “thousands of jobs leaving Michigan.” (Ford is
shifting the production of new products to the affected plants and not
cutting any jobs.)
34) Falsely called Palm Beach, Florida “probably the wealthiest
community there is in the world.” (Palm Beach is not even the
wealthiest community in America, let alone the world. The Palm Beach
Post put it at number three in the country; other rankings, with
different measures of wealth, have it lower.)
35) Misleadingly said to Clinton, “You are going to approve one of the
biggest tax increases in history.” (Clinton’s increases are large, but
they are only on wealthy people.)
36) Misleadingly said, “In New York City, stop and frisk, we had 2,200
murders, and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders.” (It is a
great exaggeration to attribute the entire decline to stop and frisk.
Crime declined massively around the country during this period,
including in cities that did not use the practice.)
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/09/27/donald-trump-said-34-false-things-at-first-presidential-debate.html
--
I have to admit, in the First Presidential Debate, Hillary Clinton did
"women's work".
She absolutely mopped the floor with Trump...
How much are you willing to bet that Hillary will win?
Ubiquitous
2016-09-30 15:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Voters Don’t Trust Media Fact-Checking
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_poli
tics/september_2016/voters_don_t_trust_media_fact_checking

Most voters believe news organizations play favorites when it comes
to fact-checking candidates’ statements, but this skepticism is much
stronger among voters who support Donald Trump than those who back
his rival Hillary Clinton.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds
that just 29% of all Likely U.S. Voters trust media fact-checking of
candidates’ comments. Sixty-two percent (62%) believe instead that
news organizations skew the facts to help candidates they support.
(To see survey question wording, click here.)

Eighty-eight percent (88%) of voters who support Trump in the
presidential race believe news organizations skew the facts, while
most Clinton backers (59%) trust media fact-checking. Among the
supporters of Libertarian Gary Johnson and Green Party candidate
Jill Stein, sizable majorities also don’t trust media fact-checking.

These findings are no surprise given that voters think it's far more
likely reporters will try to help Clinton than Trump this election
season.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our
polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or
Facebook.

The national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on
September 28-29, 2016 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling
error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.
Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse
Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Voters remain skeptical about the political news they are getting.
Voters also continue to strongly believe that the media is more
interested in controversy than in the issues when it comes to the
presidential race.

Most Republicans (79%) and voters not affiliated with either major
political party (69%) believe the media skew the facts to help
candidates they support, but only 40% of Democrats agree.

The majority of voters in most demographic categories believe the
media play favorites when they fact-check candidates' comments.

Blacks are more trusting of media fact-checking than whites and
other minority voters are.

Seventy-nine percent (79%) of conservatives and 58% of moderates
think the media skew the facts to help their favorites, but liberals
by a 51% to 39% margin trust media fact-checking.

Prior to the first televised debate between the major party
candidates Monday night, the Clinton campaign stated that a failure
by the moderator to fact-check Trump’s statements in real time would
give him an unfair advantage. However, voters were pretty convinced
that the moderators would be helping Clinton more than Trump.

Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters believe both Clinton and Trump are
liars. Following the release in June of the final congressional
committee report on the 2012 incident in Benghazi, Libya, where four
Americans were killed, 49% of voters said Clinton lied to the
victims’ families about the nature of the attack.

A majority of voters believe the media, not the candidates, are in
the driver’s seat this presidential election season.

Our latest daily White House Watch finds Clinton and Trump remain in
a near tie, but support for Johnson appears to be fading.

Additional information from this survey and a full demographic
breakdown are available to Platinum Members only.

:Rasmussen Reports is a media company specializing in the
:collection, publication and distribution of public opinion
:information.
--
Pres Obama commented on the Miss Universe issue because that's way
easier than commenting on the slowest economic recovery since 1940.
Siri Cruise
2016-09-30 22:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Voters Don’t Trust Media Fact-Checking
The Family Feud version of news: it's not what is true, but what the survey of
idiots says is true.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
If you assume the final scene is a dying delusion as Tom Cruise drowns below
the Louvre, then Edge of Tomorrow has a happy ending. Kill Tom repeat..
Fred Oinka
2016-10-01 15:00:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Voters Don’t Trust Media Fact-Checking
The Family Feud version of news: it's not what is true, but what the survey of
idiots says is true.
Like those Brexit polls.
Post by Siri Cruise
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
If you assume the final scene is a dying delusion as Tom Cruise drowns below
the Louvre, then Edge of Tomorrow has a happy ending. Kill Tom repeat..
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